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Herbert Wallace
03-17-2009, 8:49 PM
Am I mistaken, or do the tool posts out number the projects posts about 100 to one. Would we all rather just collect tools than actually build something?:D

Chris Padilla
03-17-2009, 8:52 PM
Sounds like you've been chatting with my wife!! :mad:

;) :D

Stephen Edwards
03-17-2009, 8:57 PM
I've noticed that, too. I enjoy visiting both the projects forum and this forum. I've learned more about woodworking on this forum. Both are fun!

Robert Chapman
03-17-2009, 9:00 PM
Without tools you can't build and once you start building you realize that you need more/better tools. Then you start building even better stuff and you realize that building better stuff requires better tools. It's all perfectly logical and reasonable.

Kevin Downs
03-17-2009, 9:22 PM
It's all perfectly logical and reasonable.

I agree with this. New project = new tool! It's a rule I live by.

David Christopher
03-17-2009, 9:39 PM
From the amount of sawdust and lack of projects I must be a tool collector

John Keeton
03-17-2009, 9:42 PM
Am I mistaken, or do the tool posts out number the projects posts about 100 to one. Would we all rather just collect tools than actually build something?:DHerbert, you are walking on thin ice here, my man! We do not allow statements like this around our home. Some things are just best left unsaid - particularly within earshot of my wife:rolleyes:

I've never bought a tool I didn't need - that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

Bruce Page
03-17-2009, 9:52 PM
Am I mistaken, or do the tool posts out number the projects posts about 100 to one. Would we all rather just collect tools than actually build something?:D

I'm missing your point....:confused::D

Bill Huber
03-17-2009, 9:54 PM
Without tools you can't build and once you start building you realize that you need more/better tools. Then you start building even better stuff and you realize that building better stuff requires better tools. It's all perfectly logical and reasonable.

I think that sums it up very well.

But I don't post every project I build, if I did I wouldn't have to time to build anything.:D

But then I wouldn't be building anything so I wouldn't need any tools.

So if I posted every project, at some point would have to get out of woodworking because I didn't have any tools.

It is just a big never ending circle....

Now I just don't know what to do....:mad:

Ed Calkins
03-17-2009, 9:54 PM
The analysis and procurement part of tool collection is fun, although a costly hobby. However this focus does minimize the issues with finding good affordable wood in today's world. Another version of the journey over the destination. Ed :) (guilty as charged)

Peter Quinn
03-17-2009, 10:45 PM
I love tools. Since an early age I've enjoyed picking up strange tools, trying to understand them, learning to use them or make sense of them. I'm a flea market tool junkie, and I like machines as well. I've taken days off from work just to walk around an industrial wood working machine expo just to see what is out there with no intention of making a purchase. Call it sheer curiosity. Its at least part of the fun for me. Ok, obsession might not be too strong a word to describe myself.

I guess I'd expect there to be more traffic in the general wood working and power tools forum. It takes me weeks or months to build something at work, even longer working nights and weekends in my home shop. It takes me seconds to purchase a new tool or develop a question about one I already own. I rarely post pictures of anything I make because most of it is just not that interesting. Passage doors, windows, stair treads, moldings, cabinet doors. I like making it but who cares to see it? "Hey, here's 200LF of victorian brick mold I made...". And most of what I make at work is not my intellectual property to share, so that's out. I do enjoy cruising the project forum to see all the cool things other people are making.

Anyway, with a few exceptions, personally all my tools and machines were purchased to do work, and they all do get used. In fact if my two year old were not sleeping right above my shop I'd probably be there working right now. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.:D

Jack Ellis
03-17-2009, 11:01 PM
My wife also occasionally wonders when I'm going to start producing and stop collecting. At the moment, my tools take up most of the available space in my current shop.

I'm going to have to build cabinets for the new shop starting soon, which will put some of the questions to rest. Having a larger, better organized, more comfortable place to work will help a lot tool.

Geoff Potter
03-17-2009, 11:17 PM
LOML says tools and wood go into the workshop and nothing ever comes out. It IS getting crowded in there!

Chip Lindley
03-17-2009, 11:18 PM
Hello! My Name is Chip, and I am a TOOL ADDICT!

I have a deep love for good tools! POWER tools, that is! I finally realized my *dream* of possessing a Powermatic 66 two years ago! Quite a journey from a POS Crapsman as my first TS back in 1974. Let me qualify that: I have an abiding romance with good tools at bargain prices. I have only one machine I bought new in 1992! A Delta 14" bandsaw! Its a Keeper!

Perhaps there is more tool interest than project interest during the WINTER TIME!! Many garages and out buildings are just too chilly to conjur up much interest in spending long hours *creating*! Spring is coming, and so will new projects!

My Tool Addiction is much less harmful than my former penchant for *over-drinking*! All that $$ spent is now literally *down the drain*! But, I can walk into the shop and see where all that $$ went! Tools keep me busy and accidentally make me some extra $$ from time to time!

Pat Germain
03-17-2009, 11:20 PM
I don't post my projects because there's typically nothing particularly unique about them. Inevitably, I'd get a few polite comments like, "Nice bandsaw box."

I'm currently working on a small project which is somewhat unique. Maybe I'll post some pics when it's done. Or, maybe not. It's kind of intimidating being among projects by Mark Singer, Bill Wyko and Dewey Torres.

So, just because I'm talking about tools doesn't mean I'm not building something.

David DeCristoforo
03-17-2009, 11:24 PM
"I've never bought a tool I didn't need ..."

Or needed a tool I didn't buy....

Allen Tomaszek
03-17-2009, 11:27 PM
Who's collecting tools? I fully plan on selling most of them when I upgrade.

Doug Hobkirk
03-17-2009, 11:54 PM
Who's collecting tools? I fully plan on selling most of them when I upgrade.
I like that!

A complete workshop certainly can be almost an end in itself - there are a lot of shops that will never produce projects that would cost as much as the cost of the workshop itself. But building a shop and building projects are both therapy, and have you checked the hourly price of therapists?

Dave Lehnert
03-18-2009, 12:19 AM
The guy next door can by a sports car for $35k and be junk in 10 years but that is ok. I can buy a shop full of tools for 1/2 that, own them for life but some think that is foolish. ???????????

Jim Becker
03-18-2009, 12:27 AM
Herbert, it's always been evident that in online forums, there is a lot of tool talk because it's a valuable way to exchange information, etc. There are, of course, some folks who "buy large" and don't do anything with it, but I do believe that most folks, while chatting about the tools, do a lot of nice work with them, too.

Jeremy Rayburn
03-18-2009, 12:31 AM
Amen John, I need every tool I've ever bought if my wife is around. BTW, I have some for sale in the Classified!!

Brian Effinger
03-18-2009, 12:32 AM
It's kind of intimidating being among projects by Mark Singer, Bill Wyko and Dewey Torres.
I know exactly what you mean ;)

gary Zimmel
03-18-2009, 12:42 AM
Tool collectors buy antiques to sell at a later time for profit.

My tools were new when I bought them so I think I should be ok.

John Gornall
03-18-2009, 12:42 AM
In the section "General Woodworking and Power Tools" there are about 500,000 posts. Perhaps it's time to split this into 2 separate sections. Some days I've got tools on my mind - other days I'm only interested in wood.

Gary Herrmann
03-18-2009, 1:57 AM
Tools? What about wood? When you come across an amazing piece of quilted maple or curly cherry for a great price and you don't know exactly what you'll make out of it, but you can see a dovetailed box, or a bowl, or a tabletop or...

Dewey Torres
03-18-2009, 2:01 AM
In the section "General Woodworking and Power Tools" there are about 500,000 posts. Perhaps it's time to split this into 2 separate sections. Some days I've got tools on my mind - other days I'm only interested in wood.

John,
I might suggest if you didn't already know to sort by "new posts" when you log on instead of going to a category. The other communities offer a great way to expand your knowledge and keep from going stale IMO.
That's how a got started in turning.

Paul Greathouse
03-18-2009, 2:09 AM
Herbert,

Your only a couple hours north of me, PM me if you want to come down south and see what kind of sawdust Grizzly, Shop Fox and Eurekazone tools can make.

I'm finishing up a Master Bath remodel right now with Two seperate 4' vanities and an 8' high 30" wide armoire type cabinet. The walls are accented with 5' high beadboard topped with a 4 piece built up wainscoting and 3 piece built up door casings, all shaped on my Shop Fox Moulder and my shop built router table.

I'll post pictures when the job is complete. Right now, I'm just too busy trying to finish the project and still make a living at the day/night job.

I'll even show you how much my Oneida sucks.

guy knight
03-18-2009, 2:16 AM
Who's collecting tools? I fully plan on selling most of them when I upgrade.

but what do you do when you have upgraded them all and walking into rockler/woodcraft becomes a search for a new product and disappointment is when you didn't find anything to buy :eek: is it then time to find another collection hobby:confused:

Neal Clayton
03-18-2009, 2:52 AM
Am I mistaken, or do the tool posts out number the projects posts about 100 to one. Would we all rather just collect tools than actually build something?:D

that and apparently many people put alot of thought and effort into building a bench (which could be done with 2x4s and plywood in 10 minutes) and after completing that, their woodworking life is complete.

edit: just took a tally, there are 5 different workbench threads in this forum alone in the past two days. three in the past 12 hours.

Cody Colston
03-18-2009, 8:00 AM
Am I mistaken, or do the tool posts out number the projects posts about 100 to one. Would we all rather just collect tools than actually build something?:D

In a word...yes!

In fact, I posed the same question on another forum recently. It didn't go over very well there, either. :)

Cody Colston
03-18-2009, 8:06 AM
In the section "General Woodworking and Power Tools" there are about 500,000 posts. Perhaps it's time to split this into 2 separate sections. Some days I've got tools on my mind - other days I'm only interested in wood.

This forum used to be called simply "General Woodworking." IIRC, someone got upset when their post about a hand tool was moved to the hand tool forum. When they complained about all the power tool discussion allowed here, the forum was re-named "General Woodworking and Power Tools."

I'd love to see it split into two forums just so I wouldn't be tempted to read the Festool and Sawstop groupie posts here. :D

George Sanders
03-18-2009, 8:31 AM
No such thing as too many tools ; as long as you can still kinda-sorta move around in wherever you got em at.:rolleyes: Yes, I DO ACTUALLY USE THEM! Well most of them.

chris dub
03-18-2009, 8:57 AM
I think everybody is a little bit of both. Even if you use your tools regularly for a living there is that fascination with the newer, bigger, faster tool. Unless you have just the bare necessities to complete your work or do an ROI for every purchase there is a bit of tool collector in all of us.

Don Morris
03-18-2009, 10:12 AM
What, you didn't know that the wwer who dies with the most tools wins?

Jason White
03-18-2009, 12:14 PM
Guilty as charged!:D

Actually, it's mostly that I have very little time to build things. So, I buy tools to make me feel better about it. Plus, buying tools is easy and fun. Building things (and finding time to do so) is harder.

Jason


Am I mistaken, or do the tool posts out number the projects posts about 100 to one. Would we all rather just collect tools than actually build something?:D

Rick Fisher
03-18-2009, 12:15 PM
I dont think many people collect woodworking machinery and dont use it, or plan to use it.

When you love cutting wood, bigger and better cutters allow you to express that love in a bigger and better way. :D

John Gornall
03-18-2009, 1:42 PM
My wife has no problem with my tools, in fact she encourages me and buys me tools - it's the piles of wood I collect that annoys her. The 400 BDFT of old growth clear quarter sawn Douglas Fir that is now at 8% That she trips on everyday drives her nuts. It's only been in the house 3 years! And that pile of burls under the sundeck we won't talk about.

Gary Herrmann
03-18-2009, 2:52 PM
Like a lot of folks, I generally only post large projects, if it's something I've never done before or something that would make it particularly interesting - design, joinery or the wood used.

If you turn and you post a pic of everything you make, that gets to be a lot.

Mats Bengtsson
03-18-2009, 3:08 PM
that and apparently many people put alot of thought and effort into building a bench (which could be done with 2x4s and plywood in 10 minutes) and after completing that, their woodworking life is complete.

edit: just took a tally, there are 5 different workbench threads in this forum alone in the past two days. three in the past 12 hours.

Is that not natural? The receiver of the workbench will be grateful, even if it has some small defects. Also, it resides in the workshop, which has step by step, during long discussions about something called "garage" ment for storing things like cars and flower pots over winter, been converted to an area where things can be placed without long discussions.

Replacing the kitchen chairs and table could result in less favorable response if they are not enough good looking. actually, even if they look really good but tend to be to woody to match the style of the rest of the things. :D

--- Mats ---

J. Z. Guest
03-18-2009, 3:32 PM
I agree Herbert, and it is a little disappointing.

But when you come down to it, there are two main types of posts here:

1) Tool posts: What do I get? Here's what I got. What would be a good tool for XXX.

2) How do I ...? posts.

For people that know how to do everything and who have all the tools, you'll mostly see them replying to others or posting in the Projects forum.

I do see plenty of "How do I..?" posts, but not nearly as many as tool posts.

I've noticed that a lot of the people who buy a lot of tools don't post much in the Projects forum I can only assume that the majority of our members are still assembling their shop. I only hope they get past that stage.

At some point, we all have to assume that we will never have the perfect shop. If we do, it means we have too much money and not enough time, or that it took so long, there's no life left in us to do woodworking.

New tool for new project policy is a good one and quite reasonable, as long as each new tool is not hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Edit: Just read the rest of this thread, it is great. One member made a good point about winter. Some people buy tools during the winter when it is too cold outside to work. (and too expensive to make it warm enough!) Others just stop working until it gets warmer. (that's me)

My suggestion is that we should post all of these un-interesting projects we're building, even if it is only a couple snapshots of the end product. There is usually something to learn from each project

Frank Berryman
03-18-2009, 3:34 PM
There is room in the hobby for everyone.

Eric DeSilva
03-18-2009, 4:16 PM
When you love cutting wood, bigger and better cutters allow you to express that love in a bigger and better way. :D

That seems like a fine signature line...

Neal Clayton
03-18-2009, 5:38 PM
Is that not natural? The receiver of the workbench will be grateful, even if it has some small defects. Also, it resides in the workshop, which has step by step, during long discussions about something called "garage" ment for storing things like cars and flower pots over winter, been converted to an area where things can be placed without long discussions.

Replacing the kitchen chairs and table could result in less favorable response if they are not enough good looking. actually, even if they look really good but tend to be to woody to match the style of the rest of the things. :D

--- Mats ---

maybe it's just me, but the things i see which are highly complex are the things i want to build. even if i fail, what am i out, 50 bucks in lumber (assuming i built the first as a mockup with throw away pine)? and even at that i'll have learned enough that the next one will turn out fine.

it just seems to me that the people who can't manage a shop table without asking questions are in for a frustrating hobby (assuming their hobby is building things and not tool hoarding, if tool hoarding is what they're after they'll be fine i suppose).

Mats Bengtsson
03-18-2009, 5:43 PM
maybe it's just me, but the things i see which are highly complex are the things i want to build. even if i fail, what am i out, 50 bucks in lumber (assuming i built the first as a mockup with throw away pine)? and even at that i'll have learned enough that the next one will turn out fine.

it just seems to me that the people who can't manage a shop table without asking questions are in for a frustrating hobby (assuming their hobby is building things and not tool hoarding, if tool hoarding is what they're after they'll be fine i suppose).

People like to do and learn in different ways. Some like to read about it first, some like to discuss it first, some like trial and error. So for some, asking questions will not be frustrating, for others, even asking for directions when driving in a foreign country will be frustrating.

--- Mats ---

Burt Alcantara
03-18-2009, 7:04 PM
I bought a giant wrench for no reason other then it looks cool. I have a number of old rusty tools on my peg board for the same reason. There is something in the male DNA that draws us to tools.

After all, it's said that the evolution of intelligence was jump started by the discovery and use of tools. So, when you are asked, "What? Another TOOL?"

Just say, it's genetic.

Burt

Herbert Wallace
03-18-2009, 7:43 PM
HEY coolit, some of you guys are taking this thread wayyy to serious. I was just poking a little fun at especially me. I am well on the way to having three of everything, I have had to build on and modify my shop twice. I even had to build a seperate building to house not shop/project related STUFF. And, I work in my shop everyday that I am home. And as was mentioned before, My projects are embarassing compared to the craftsmanship displayed here.

Leigh Betsch
03-19-2009, 12:30 AM
I'm quite sure that if a person could buy talent the tool sellers would go broke. :rolleyes:

John Keeton
03-19-2009, 8:31 AM
it's said that the evolution of intelligence Burt, my wife would say that this phrase, and the word "male" in the same sentence produce an anomaly.

Mats Bengtsson
03-19-2009, 8:39 AM
Burt, my wife would say that this phrase, and the word "male" in the same sentence produce an anomaly.

Interestingly enough, the word "male" is not used in that sentence. Makes one think... :)

--- Mats ---

Mark Singer
03-19-2009, 10:45 AM
Here is an interesting thread I started a while back

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=49511&highlight=avid+collector

John Keeton
03-19-2009, 2:45 PM
Mats, you got me! "Male" was used in the preceeding sentence. Perhaps it was the "female" of the species that is responsible for "the discovery and use of tools", thus further supporting my wife's opinion regarding the word "male" in conjunction with the concept of "evolution of intelligence.":D:rolleyes:

Mark, interesting thread! And, now I know when your first Blue Spruce purchase was made!

Mats Bengtsson
03-19-2009, 2:52 PM
Mats, you got me! "Male" was used in the preceeding sentence. Perhaps it was the "female" of the species that is responsible for "the discovery and use of tools", thus further supporting my wife's opinion regarding the word "male" in conjunction with the concept of "evolution of intelligence.":D:rolleyes:

Mark, interesting thread! And, now I know when your first Blue Spruce purchase was made!

:) We can build on that all night. If it was the female, then "male" was included in the sentence...

--- Mats ---

Todd Bin
03-19-2009, 3:05 PM
[quote=Pat Germain;1084672]I don't post my projects because there's typically nothing particularly unique about them. Inevitably, I'd get a few polite comments like, "Nice bandsaw box."

It's kind of intimidating being among projects by Mark Singer, Bill Wyko and Dewey Torres.

[quote]

Please post your projects. I look at them all and lots of them I think are neat I don't post a "good job". I even liked the guy who put the toilet paper holder up the other day. I thought that was a great project. Just because it didn't have a Wenge frame with a Maple panel doesn't mean it wasn't well executed.

Danny Thompson
03-19-2009, 8:32 PM
Probably. I see at least nine different hobbies at play here:

-Chatting about tools and woodworking (you can't be in the shop all the time)
-Buying (and restoring) antique tools
-Buying good tools cheap (old tools or deals)
-Buying the latest and greatest (money is no object)
-Making Sawdust (the pleasure of the work)
-Showing off (or sometimes just seeking validation from those who care about woodworking)
-Sniping at other people's posts (sometimes in good humor, sometimes not)
-Sharing lessons learned
-Producing Woodwork (getting it done)

Only one of which results in output. But, then again, whatever makes you happy . . .

Mats Bengtsson
03-20-2009, 2:43 AM
Probably. I see at least nine different hobbies at play here:

-Chatting about tools and woodworking (you can't be in the shop all the time)
-Buying (and restoring) antique tools
-Buying good tools cheap (old tools or deals)
-Buying the latest and greatest (money is no object)
-Making Sawdust (the pleasure of the work)
-Showing off (or sometimes just seeking validation from those who care about woodworking)
-Sniping at other people's posts (sometimes in good humor, sometimes not)
-Sharing lessons learned
-Producing Woodwork (getting it done)

Only one of which results in output. But, then again, whatever makes you happy . . .

Good post, good summary of points, but I could not see the last sentence match the rest.

"Only one of which result in immediate woodworking products produced output", that I would have understood. The others also result in output although not immediately, and not always within woodworking.

For example "sharing lessons learned" has the output of helping others find or avoid ways that will or could have effect on their end products/productivity. Those kind of threads are also quite common.

--- Mats ---

Mike Parzych
03-20-2009, 10:28 AM
I'm always amused when someone complains about the price of lumber while standing in a shop with $10,000 worth of tools.

Carlos Alden
03-20-2009, 11:35 AM
I'm always amused when someone complains about the price of lumber while standing in a shop with $10,000 worth of tools.

Ha! This is me at Windsor Ply or Woodcraft, looking at the wood. Well put. I think that I oftentimes get things out of perspective. If I bought all the wood I wanted for the things I think I wanted to do right now, it'd be no more than $500.

Carlos

Joe Von Kaenel
03-20-2009, 1:30 PM
I never thought of it that way? I am definitely a tool collector who builds some projects . :o


Joe

Bill Blackburn
03-20-2009, 2:05 PM
Thanks Mats!

Copy Print and place in a frame on wall. In time I'll see what one I evolve into.
But the one that could be me - procrastinator - needs to be added

John Ricci
03-20-2009, 5:08 PM
Would we all rather just collect tools than actually build something?:D

You say that like its a bad thing:confused::D

J.R.

Mike Cutler
03-20-2009, 7:43 PM
My wife summed it up for me once like this.

"Tools are for men, what jewelry is for women. You may not need it right now, but you'll need it later for that "special occasion".

She's bought me a lot of nice tools through the years. I ain't arguing with her logic.;),:D

Bill Wyko
03-20-2009, 7:53 PM
I run 2 businesses durring the day and do my woodwork at night. I buy some sort of tool 2 or 3 times a week but I only turn out 2 or 3 projects a month hence the ratio of tools/projects.:eek::D

Clint Schlosser
03-20-2009, 8:08 PM
1 project = 1+ tools at a minimum. I would expect that the ratio you see is relevant to this constant.

Danny Thompson
03-20-2009, 8:48 PM
The others also result in output although not immediately, and not always within woodworking.
--- Mats ---

Good point, Mats.

gary Zimmel
03-20-2009, 9:32 PM
One thing that always has made me wonder.

We have close to 12,000 active members.
If we each did one project a year and posted it
we would have 32 new projects every day...

Brad Noble
03-20-2009, 9:58 PM
Am I mistaken, or do the tool posts out number the projects posts about 100 to one. Would we all rather just collect tools than actually build something?:D

Yes. And your point is .......... ? Really. Golfers just have to have the latest drivers and putters, bowlers get the latest balanced ball and glove, bikers have the best loud pipes and custom seats and so on. See what I mean? I don't think there is a difference with woodworking and tool collectors.

I hope that didn't sound as bad as it reads, it wasn't mean't that way.

Brad

Joe Von Kaenel
03-26-2009, 12:36 PM
Just to reiterate what has already been stated:

There are a lot of very talented woodworkers that use this site. I agree with what others have stated. I am embarrassed to post project pictures , maybe someday if I become talented and able to make awesome projects like some members are capable of making, I will feel better. My wife likes my projects!!


Just finished a redwood picnic table, last night


Joe

Bob Genovesi
03-26-2009, 12:53 PM
My fear is; if I die my wife will sell my tools for what she "thinks" I paid for them! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Eric Roberge
03-26-2009, 1:05 PM
If you’re not comfortable posting in the forum, that's ok! Just make an album in your profile page. If people are curious to see your work then they'll check out your profile. If they're not, well then they just like to talk about tools.:D
Both options are completely acceptable:p