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View Full Version : TFWW Oilstones method: Who uses it and why?



Danny Thompson
03-26-2009, 6:54 PM
I don't mean this to be another thread where everybody opines about their favorite sharpening method. There are plenty of those.


Instead, it would be great to hear from those who have real-world experience with the oilstones method recommended on tools for working wood site:

Medium India Stone
Ultra Fine (transluscent) Arkansas Stone
Leather Strop
Honing Oil
http://antiquetools.com/sharp/sharptoolsandequip.html

Is this your preferred method and why?

Who has tried this sequence and given it up and why?

Is it effective with A2 steel?

Thanks.

george wilson
03-26-2009, 7:16 PM
It should work. India is a good stone. Ceramic is a lot harder than Arkansas,but I believe it will sharpen A2.

Aaron Kline
03-26-2009, 7:23 PM
Yes, it absolutely works. No fancy expensive stuff required. The only thing I do different is I use a hard select arkansas stone. Twenty some dollars. Way cheaper than the translucent. I hollow grind , medium india, arkansas and $3 home made strop with green rouge. Other than the grinder I have $60 in stones and a strop and they were bought brand new. the grinder is a $15 hand crank with the veritas toolrest. I just don't udnerstand the need for these expensive sharpening systems that are sold everywhere. Sharpening is so simple and easy. I don't use a2, all my blades are oldies.

Joel Moskowitz
03-26-2009, 8:42 PM
I don't mean this to be another thread where everybody opines about their favorite sharpening method. There are plenty of those.


Instead, it would be great to hear from those who have real-world experience with the oilstones method recommended on tools for working wood site:

Medium India Stone
Ultra Fine (transluscent) Arkansas Stone
Leather Strop
Honing Oil
http://antiquetools.com/sharp/sharptoolsandequip.html

Is this your preferred method and why?

Who has tried this sequence and given it up and why?

Is it effective with A2 steel?

Thanks.

what's important about the method is the technique not the sequence of stones.

if you hollow grind it is effective with A2 steel but not very effective. Use the same technique with waterstones for A2

Adam Cherubini
03-26-2009, 9:16 PM
I bought all that stuf from Joel and it works as advertised. I've used soapy water as a "lubricant", Norton honing oil, and WD-40. I think WD-40 is my favorite, at least for the translucent Ark. The trick is to keep your stones clean.

I think Joel should say more about the translucent stones "breaking in". Mine has definitely changed since I bought it. It seems finer now (which should mean it's clogged) but it cuts faster too. The finish it leaves is not as polished as 1000 grit sand paper, though it's got to be finer than that. Pretty sure The Schwarz wrote about this phenomenon. The oil stones leave your steel gray but sharp. Harrelson Stanley says he thinks oilstones may burnish edges as much as hone them. He may be right about that. Could be some burnishing going on.

I really liked the yellow water stone Joel had at PFW (help us here Joel). I think it was 5000 or 8000 grit. I liked it because you didn't have to soak it to use it (so it was like a shapton, but cheaper). It felt like sand paper to me, which I like.

May be worthwhile to buy a coarse diamond stone (I have a DMT continuous 8x3) to keep your whetstones flat. These are stones like all others. They need periodic maintenance. It seems like folks let their whetstones clog and get out of flat then complain about them working too slowly.

BTW, I don't hollow grind. I do all this free hand. I don't think these are the right stones for restoring old blades. That's been the lion share of the honing I do. But to maintain an edge, these stones work fine.

Last point, I don't like the plastic boxes they come in at all. The stone supports inside the box aren't all the way in the corners, so the stone tips up. I made a traditional mahogany box for my Ark stone. Haven't gotten to the India. That's a fun project. I should write something up and submit it to Joel or maybe he should post a gallery of user made whetstone cases That's a fun project, a way to use up scraps of fine hardwoods (I used junk mahogany, and filled it's pores with spackle, then stained it, shellaced it etc etc), and express yourself.

Joel, I'm off to Saratoga Springs tomorrow for the NWA showcase. I'll wave on my way past. Would have liked to see you there. Maybe next year. I'm bringing my translucent stone and an old Washita. I found a WD-40 "marker" at the Home Despot tonight so I don't have to bring a spray can or bottle. (I really prefer the spray bottle). I gotta save all the room I can. Maria and the kids are coming with me, all my tools, a saw horse, and my workbench!

Adam

Joel Moskowitz
03-26-2009, 9:40 PM
Adam,
You are right about the braking in. In the old days stones were cut with constant abrasion and were lapped flat. These days they use diamond saws. the result is a very sharp new stone. with time - and not that much time, the crystals round over a little and the stone gets finer. it's not clogged.

I made my own wood cases in 1987 and still use them when I use oilstones.

The stones we had in PHilly were Naniwa superstones which are similar to Shapton in chemistry - resin binder and consequently should not be soaked just splashed with water. but the real difference is a conscious decision by Naniwa to try for a natural feel to the stone. the superstones are far more like a traditional stone with a very nice feel - just don't need the saoking. They are also softer than Shaptons which means they do need flattening more frequently - BUT it's much much easier to do.

incidentally or not - with free hand sharpening you use the entire surface of the stone so there is less flattening to do not matter what stone you use. And with hollow grinding there is less material that needs removing so there is less wear and tear on the stone and even less flattening.

have fun at Saratoga Springs I would love to be there - maybe next year!!

joel

Robert Rozaieski
03-26-2009, 9:55 PM
I use a Black Arkansas in place of the translucent but other than that I hone the same way. The hollow grind makes it easy to register the blade freehand, be it a plane iron, chisel, spokeshave iron and even skewed blades like dados and skewed rabbets and fillesters. No special angle jigs needed, no rigging a honing guide to hold a skewed iron, just put it on the stone and go to town. I do use the green honing compound on the strop for a little more pollish but other than that my technique is exactly as described in Joel's article. I love it because it's so fast to do I will actually leave the strop set up and touch up my chisels while I'm using them. No need to go through the hastle of jigging anything up in a honing guide. A couple swipes on the strop brings the edge back up. Once stropping alone wont do it I'll go back to the india stone to raise a burr then chase it off on the black Arkansas and strop to finish. Probably takes 2-3 minutes to do once the hollow is ground. I highly recommend you try it.

Matt Bickford
03-27-2009, 9:31 AM
I use this method. I would recommend a coarse diamond stone and a grinder if you don't have one. These are the only things I use to sharpen pretty much everything. I don't know which steels I have.

I carve as much as I can so I wanted a stone that wouldn't cup excessively while sharpening, these don't. I assume that waterstones do, buy I really don't know. I've never tried water stones so I can't compare them. I'm happy with my results.

Mike Brady
03-27-2009, 4:30 PM
I concur with Joel. I actually think that hard translucent Arkansas stones make a superior edge on compared to water stones for old steel and O-1. They just aren't up to the job for A-2. I use oil stones on my old Stanleys and water stones on any A-2 steel. I use micro bevels on everything but chisels. What I do is not necessarily what you should do.

Danny Thompson
03-27-2009, 10:12 PM
Thanks for the advice, everyone.

What interest me about this method is the cupping problem. I have had some problem keeping my King waterstones flat. Tried the scary sharp/3M film route, and really liked the result. Only problem is I keep ripping the film; particularly when cambering.

Almost everything I have is A2 (save the #4 Hock I got from Joel). Sounds like I should look into the Naniwa Superstones.

Tony Zaffuto
03-28-2009, 5:47 AM
I've been using the TFWW methods for quite sometime, but with a bit of a twist. For the final step instead of the leather strop, I take a swipe or two on a piece of 2500 grit Sc paper glued to a granite plate. I used the leather strop method, but substututing the Sc paper at the end seems to give me a bit more sharp.

One thing not mentioned in the above discussion: yes you can use virtually all of the stone, but you also can do all of this with a smaller stone if you follow the sharpening methods demonstrated in the TFWW oilstone DVD. Upside is you can buy a smaller size, better grade stone and save a buck or two.

T.Z.

Robert Rozaieski
03-28-2009, 6:31 AM
Thanks for the advice, everyone.

What interest me about this method is the cupping problem. I have had some problem keeping my King waterstones flat. Tried the scary sharp/3M film route, and really liked the result. Only problem is I keep ripping the film; particularly when cambering.

Almost everything I have is A2 (save the #4 Hock I got from Joel). Sounds like I should look into the Naniwa Superstones.
Danny,
I sharpen my D2 Ray Iles mortisers on the oil stones and they hone up just fine. With the hollow grind, you are honing so little steel that there really isn't much additional time required. Don't discount the oil stones before you try them. I would think your A2 would hone up just fine. Just may take a few additional passes on the stone. If you put the green honing compound on the strop (even though Joel's method doesn't do this) it will help with the harder A2 steel as well.



One thing not mentioned in the above discussion: yes you can use virtually all of the stone, but you also can do all of this with a smaller stone if you follow the sharpening methods demonstrated in the TFWW oilstone DVD. Upside is you can buy a smaller size, better grade stone and save a buck or two.
T.Z.

Good point! All my stones are 6" x 2" x 1" and were much cheaper than the larger stones. My surgical black Arkansas stone was only about $40 in this size and the India stone was about $12. I saved about half the cost of buying larger sized stones.

Douglas Brummett
04-03-2009, 5:28 PM
Thanks for the advice, everyone.

What interest me about this method is the cupping problem. I have had some problem keeping my King waterstones flat. Tried the scary sharp/3M film route, and really liked the result. Only problem is I keep ripping the film; particularly when cambering.

Almost everything I have is A2 (save the #4 Hock I got from Joel). Sounds like I should look into the Naniwa Superstones.

bleh, sharpening discussion again :)

I have a full set of oilstones (Norton and Dan's). I have not found anything that they didn't sharpen. Typically I don't seek out A2, but my block plane does have that. Not an issue. I sought out oilstones after chasing flatness on waterstones and always hating the slurry all over the bench. Oilstones are not fast cutters. Typically I will grind or sand to get the correct geometry and then hone from there. With hollow grinds or secondary bevels they are plenty fast enough for me. Only real complaint could be that they don't produce as shiny of a polished surface. Typically it is a bit hazy. Of course the edge is just as sharp, just not as pretty.

Pretty much all systems have pitfalls. Out of everything I have tried (too much to list) I like oilstones and I like Shapton glass stones. Either work well and create minimal mess in the shop.

philip marcou
04-04-2009, 3:30 AM
I don't mean this to be another thread where everybody opines about their favorite sharpening method. There are plenty of those.


Instead, it would be great to hear from those who have real-world experience with the oilstones method recommended on tools for working wood site:

Medium India Stone
Ultra Fine (transluscent) Arkansas Stone
Leather Strop
Honing Oil



Is this your preferred method and why?

Who has tried this sequence and given it up and why?

Is it effective with A2 steel?

Thanks.

I can vouch for the India stone-medium , fine or finest. Since I make D2 and O1 blades for planes, and use A2 blades for planes I make as well, and have reason to grind different bevel angles on these, I find an India stone in good condition performs well. I use it with straight kerosene, no oil. By condition I mean the stone has been CONDITIONED , or dressed, often, which not only keeps it flat but far more importantly allows it to cut fast.
Conditioning is the same idea as dressing bench grinder wheels to remove ingrained metal and expose fresh sharp grits.
A simple quick and cheap way to condition these stones is by use of a cheap coarse diamond plate-using a DMT is abusive and not necessary. I again recommend kerosene- if the kerosene in your location smells objectionable then WD40 is probably the next best thing but costs more and can get sticky.Anyway, WD40 is mostly kerosene as far as I know...
Incidentally: I also use kerosene on my Kingstone, and dress it as described.
Nobody should have any problem honing properly hardened and tempered blades this way- be they O1 , A2 or D2, and also should not have to spend significently longer on either A2 or D2.

Roger Barlow
04-04-2009, 11:45 AM
I used oilstones way back, works just fine, and I still have my arkansas stones. But I don't use them for any ww'ing anymore simply due to oil contamination in the shop, - it was bad and costly to get rid of it. WD40 doesn't enter the shop except for quick trips and then it's back to lockup.

Johnny Kleso
04-05-2009, 6:43 PM
I just a number of oil stones...

The wear muchless than water stones..
Water stones cut some what faster..

In the end you only have one choice for a very fine stone and that is a water stone or a strop with green aluminum oxide...