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View Full Version : Dovetail layout on Walnut, Pencil's that show



Brad Patch
04-02-2009, 10:56 AM
Getting ready to layout and cut some dovetails on some Walnut. My 65 year old eyes have difficulty with ordinary pencil marks. Is there a fine leaded product that can provide more contrast?

Thanks,
Brad

David Keller NC
04-02-2009, 10:59 AM
Brad - Visit one of your local art stores, or try Jerry's Artarama on the web. Either will sell colored pencils in a great profusion of colors and hardness. I would suggest a medium-hard color pencil, probably in white or sky blue to stand out against walnut.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of anyone that makes the 0.5mm pencil leads for a mechanical pencil in colors other than natural graphite.

One thing I'd suggest staying away from are the "grease" pencils in white. While I do find them useful for other jobs in the shop, they don't seem to leave a consistent enough line for dovetailing.

george wilson
04-02-2009, 11:00 AM
Brad,I need closeup glasses myself at 68. You need to go get some 4X reading glasses made for you,or maybe 3X.Depends upon how bad your eyes are. I use 4X.

Robert Rozaieski
04-02-2009, 11:17 AM
Use a marking knife to lay out your dovetails instead of a pencil for better registration of your chisel and saw. Scribe them deep. Then, after knifing your lines, scribble across them with plain white chalk like they use in school. Going across the knife lines instead of along them will cause the knife lines to fill in with chalk dust. Finally, wipe away the excess chalk from the surface with a barely damp rag or paper towel. The chalk will stay in the knife lines giving you very fine white lines to cut to and you also get the benefit of the positive registration provided by the knife lines which will help to guide youe saw and chisel to the right spot.

Joe McMahon
04-02-2009, 11:19 AM
Use a marking knife to lay out your dovetails instead of a pencil for better registration of your chisel and saw. Scribe them deep. Then, after knifing your lines, scribble across them with plain white chalk like they use in school. Going across the knife lines instead of along them will cause the knife lines to fill in with chalk dust. Finally, wipe away the excess chalk from the surface with a barely damp rag or paper towel. The chalk will stay in the knife lines giving you very fine white lines to cut to and you also get the benefit of the positive registration provided by the knife lines which will help to guide youe saw and chisel to the right spot.


Bob, great idea, thanks!! I'm a retired LEO. When I was a detective, I carried a piece of chalk in my brief case. When we recovered a gun, a lot of times if it was old, the serial number would be almost worn off, sometimes the bad guy tried to obliterate the number. More often than not, the chalk rubbed over the area followed by a cross wipe would bring the numbers out clear as day.

Doug Shepard
04-02-2009, 12:19 PM
I bought a box of white and yellow art pencils from this outfit for marking on darker wood and was happy with the service
http://www.misterart.com/g1326/Prismacolor-Colored-Pencils.htm

mike holden
04-02-2009, 12:22 PM
Joe,
Heres a pic with the knife lines chalked.

114719

Mike

Dave Anderson NH
04-02-2009, 12:24 PM
Bob hit it exactly right for walnut. I keep a small lidded plastic frosting jar filled with powdered chalk on the shelf under my bench for exactly this purpose. You can buy powdered chalk at most backpacking and climbing stores since rockclimbers (I used to be one when younger) use it on their hands to imporve grip, just like gymnasts do.

John Keeton
04-02-2009, 12:45 PM
I have used the chalk as well, but seem to do better with a gooseneck lamp that I keep on my bench and I pull it to get a raking light across the marks. I also use a little duller knife to get a strong mark.

Then, I change to a stronger set of reading glasses so I can actually see the dang lines:rolleyes:

David Gendron
04-02-2009, 7:30 PM
I do work a lot with black walnut, and I found what work best for me is a yellow pencil, sold under the company Berol, verithin, canary yellow(2735). What I usualy do is mark the layout with a knife and then go back with the yellow pencile that I sharpened like a "chisel" using sand paper so the the tip fits into the knife line!

Al Navas
04-03-2009, 7:40 AM
Brad,

I also suggest the chalk trick, after marking your stock with a very fine knife:

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/patternpilot-thinline.png

Even a very fine line, as done on this walnut leg with a Czeck Edge marking knife, shows beautifully after wiping away most of the chalk and leaving only the cross-hair target. This has helped tremendously in getting great accuracy in placing the work piece on the FMT, to make the mortises and the tenons.

But it has also been the best thing I can do to get proper marks when hand-cutting dovetails. For example, I kept cutting beyond the base line, but this trick has really helped me:

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/hc-dts-boxes-8.png


.

Scott Wigginton
04-03-2009, 9:19 AM
Don't forget to use your First Pair of Pantyhose (http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/My+First+Pair+Of+Pantyhose.aspx) to mark the pins. :D

John Keeton
04-03-2009, 10:23 AM
Neat trick! ------until you sneeze:D