Which Holdfast?

[Scott Wigginton]

Getting ready to start doing more handwork and i find myself in need of a better way to hold my work. I've done a bunch of searching here and have it down to two options, but there isn't much material on the second one (I've read the OTR and NWW reviews) but posts here have been slim pickings.

Option 1) Holdfasts by Gramercy Tools (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-HOLDFAST.XX&Category_Code=TL), $32/pair
Option 2) Leigh Bench Hold-Down Clamp (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=21023), $50/ea

Gramercy has a 10% sale through April, I get 10% guild discount at woodcraft, so it comes down to:

Ease of use
Range of use
Durability

Just getting into neander-work, the only thing I can think of needing them for is chopping out dovetail waste and maybe some powertool use when I want to hold something deeper in the bench or where clamps get in the way (jigsaw/edge routing come to mind). I have 4 wood and 4 metal dogs for planing/scraping.

And do you really need more than one?

I'd like some inputs from folk who own both, but all opinions are helpful :D

-Scott

[David Keller NC]

I think you'll find once you get them that they will become indispensable. There is no faster way to secure work falt to the benchtop. In addition to what you mentioned, one of the primary use for these is holding a panel flat on the benchtop, with the edge hanging over, to work on the edge (for example, when raising panels).

They are also indispensable when you want to clamp a board to the benchtop and rip it with a hand saw (if you want to do that, that is, though it would also work very well for a portable circular saw).

Finally, they are indispensable to fix down battens to constrain work - for example, when cross-planing a large board. You can use bench dogs along two adjacent edges, but you usually must constrain the third edge to keep the work from walking all over your benchtop, and it'll be rare when your dog holes are exactly the distance apart needed to do this. You can use the Veritas "Wonder Dogs" for this purpose, but they're a lot slower than holdfasts.

And yes, you need a pair. When constraining a panel, fixing a batten, or other uses when you need the edge of the work or jig to stay still, only one holdfast will result in the work rotating against it as you apply force to the opposite edge.

The Grammercy Tools holdfasts are certainly a bargain, but be aware that they are a compromise between the traditional forged holdfast and the really cheap (and worthless) cast-iron far-east imports. In particular, you may need to rough up the shafts of the Grammercy tools to get them to function well. That's no big deal, of course, but if you want a traditional pair that will last well past your lifetime, you can get a pair forged from cold-rolled mild steel from The Galena Blacksmith (Phil Koontz). I've a pair of these, and love them. And service was very quick - I had them within a week of ordering them.

[Tri Hoang]

I got a Gramercy pair and found them very well built and can take quite a bit of abuse...they hold tight. I have not used the Leigh clamps but can't imagine anything would be easier and faster to use than those holdfasts. I've never found the range to be a problem.

There is less of a chance to damage the wood with the Leigh though. The holdfasts are also less forgiving on your tools should they come in contact...

[John Keeton]

I am going to go against the tide here and say that I have used the cast iron holdfasts for years with no breakage. It may happen tomorrow, but in the meantime, I have had good service out of them.

I ground the pad flat, and glued on a piece of leather. I am sure cork would work as well or better, but I had the leather on hand.

The forged ones are undoubtedly better and worth the price - particularly if one is going to use them under any significant force. But as a "hybrid" woodworker, my planing is pretty lightweight.

[Luke Townsley]

I'm happy with the Gramercy ones. Their reach isn't as long as I might like, but I wouldn't consider that a minus since they are also more compact.

I would, however, prefer that they were the same diameter as the 1" dog holes in my bench. I have even though about looking for 1" ones just for that reason.

[Don C Peterson]

I have a pair of the Gramercy holdfasts and like them. But after Jr. Strasil showed me the ones he made, I made some myself which are springyer than the Gramercys. The springyness allows a greater range in holding power which can significantly reduce damage done to the wood. I also made some leather pads for the holding face.

I still have and use the Grammercys but I reach for my home forged HFs most often.

[David Keller NC]

"I would, however, prefer that they were the same diameter as the 1" dog holes in my bench. I have even though about looking for 1" ones just for that reason."

Luke - realize that the physics of getting a holdfast to hold means that a 1" diameter shaft on a holdfast will not hold well in a 1" hole. You're depending on the leverage between one side of the holdfast shaft wedging at the top of the hole, and the 180 degree opposite side of the holdfast shaft wedging against the opposite side of the hole at the bottom of the bench top. Incidentally, the thicker the benchtop, the more play needs to be between the holdfast shaft and the holdfast hole.

One other observation is a that a true antique holdfast has a shaft that is generally tapered. Theoretically, that would increase its holding power, but other than Colonial Williamsburg's Prentis store, I'm not aware of any blacksmith operation producing these tapered holdfasts (and they're really, really tough to get on the antique market).

Also, in regards to the el cheapo cast iron holdfasts, one of the reasons they don't hold as well as one made from mild steel is that they're a bit short to work in a bench over 1-1/2" in thickness, and they won't flex as much as the ones forged from mild steel, which further reduces their holding power. If you try to compensate by giving them a harder whack, they tend to break off between the shaft and arm - I've broken several this way.

[David Gendron]

Good day, I have a paire,( and i think you need at least a paire)mine are made by Jake Pogrebinsky from Galena Alaska and they are the greatest of hold fast( around $100 a paire)! you can reach hime @ jakepogrebinsky@yahoo.com. Woodworking mag, had an article about hold fast and these were the best! I also heard that the gramercy tool one are pretty good for the money. I think I will try to get a paire... Also one that seems to be great are the one made By Veritas(Lee Valley), they are called Veritas hold down, for these one, you don't need to set them with a mallet!!
David

[Dominic Greco]

Short and sweet:
I have the Graymercy and can't fathom how I managed to work without them! They are THAT good!:D

[Jim Becker]

I have two of the Gramarcy and love them...even for my non-Neander work! LOL

[Dan Bertenthal]

Another recommendation for Gramercy's. All I had to do was scuff them up a bit and they've worked terrifically. I've never used forged holdfasts so I can't attest to the difference, though for the money I couldn't be more pleased. Joel did a great job bringing something economical to market.

[Marc Casebolt]

I have the Gramercy holdfasts and once I got them to work they are just fine. At first they would not hold fast at all until I saw a blurb in Woodworking magazine about filing shallow grooves on the shaft to give them more bite it the dog holes in my bench (5" thick). After that they work great. Get two for sure. I sometimes wish I had three. I have never seen the other ones you mentioned in use, but they look like might be a hassle to use.

Marc

[Roy Griggs]

My holdfasts came from a Galoot living in Alaska...send him an e-mail and get a price; not sure what the going rate is right now but his products are well made and come in different sizes. His e-mail is pdkuntz@hotmail.com

[James White]

I recently purchased a pair of the Gramercy HF myself. I gotta say you just cant be the value you get for the price. I can't believe I wasted $12 on the cast one that Rockler sells. It broke the first time I used it.

Is there any info out there on how to make your own?

James

[David Keller NC]

"My holdfasts came from a Galoot living in Alaska...send him an e-mail and get a price; not sure what the going rate is right now but his products are well made and come in different sizes. His e-mail is pdkuntz@hotmail.com "

By the way guys - this is The Galena Village blacksmith. Phil Koontz started making them, and there was so much demand that he partnered with a friend - Jake Pogrebinsky. Kudos to them - not only are they willing to do what essentially is small production line work, they've shelved other things so that we get our holdfasts in a week or two. Nothing more depressing than having a newly completed bench and not be able to get the appliances to make it work.

One other comment on the Veritas hold-downs. It's an excellent tool that has a lot of applications for which a traditional holdfast won't work too well, but it's not a substitute for a true holdfast. The reason is that it requires that you tighten the head to hold something down, which is essentially the same as using a clamp. That's not too big a deal - until you try to use them frequently. A holdfast takes one - and only one - mallet strike to hold the work firm, and is far, far faster than any clamp.

[John Powers]

Just saw the sale. for that price the Gramarcys are my choice.

[Rob Luter]

I have a pair of the Gramercy holdfasts. These are reasonably priced and work great. I roughed up the shaft with some sandpaper to get it to grip my bench dog holes a little better and I added thick leather pads to protect the workpiece. Even heavy clamping pressure doesn't mar the surface.

[Bill White]

I was able to have the blacksmith at Dollywood (SEVERAL years ago) make one for me as I watched. $10.00. Man, that feller was good, and really seemed to appreciate the fact that he could forge something other than the typical stuff.
It's been a keeper for sure.
Bill :D

[Charles Bodner]

I have and use a pair of the Grammercy HF. They are great. I also have a Veritas HD. Some days, perhaps its my karma or the stars are misaligned or the gods are just fooling around with me or... the hold-fasts just won't. Then I use the Veritas. Also: sometimes I am in the basement shop when others in the house are asleep. The Veritas holds (and releases) quietly. The holdfasts reverberate.

[Joe McMahon]

My holdfasts came from a Galoot living in Alaska...send him an e-mail and get a price; not sure what the going rate is right now but his products are well made and come in different sizes. His e-mail is pdkuntz@hotmail.com


I have the same set, they are EXCELLENT! Also, the sellers are great to work with and they respond super fast.

[Scott Wigginton]

Thanks for all the replies, a local friend offered to lend me one of his gramercy's so I can actually test it out.

Speaking of getting a real blacksmith to make one, I'm not far from Colonial Williamsburg so I might checkout that route.

Would still like to hear from any owners of the Leigh. From the newwoodworker video it appears to be much faster to adjust than the Veritas Wonder Dog (which I've seen in action). I like it's versatility and ability to work as a much stronger altnerative to a toggle clamp (for the surface mount version), but the price is a bit on the hefty side.

[Richard Dooling]

Hey Scott,

Please let me know if you find someone local to make your hold fast. I'm close to Williamsburg too.

[Hank Knight]

I would still like to hear from any owners of the Leigh. From the newwoodworker video it appears to be much faster to adjust than the Veritas Wonder Dog (which I've seen in action). I like it's versatility and ability to work as a much stronger altnerative to a toggle clamp (for the surface mount version), but the price is a bit on the hefty side.

Scott,

I have both the Veritas holdfasts and the Gramercy ones. I use them both all the time but I prefer the Vertias ones. Here's a photo of the Veritas in use, and there's a Gramercy laying on the bench hook in the background.


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/hankknight/Hunt%20Board/DSCN0580Medium.jpg

I had a little trouble with the Gramercys slipping in my 3" thick bench top, but I roughed up the shafts with some sandpaper and they are fine now. The Veritas have a serrated shaft that NEVER slips and you can make fine adjustments to the pressure with the screw knob. They are very strong and they have a little longer reach than the Gramercys. If you go with the Veritas, you'll need to chamfer the tops of your dog holes to keep the serrations from splintering the edges of the holes when you remove them. This isn't a problem with the Gramercys and for the price, the Gramercys are hard to beat. I don't know if this helps. I think the choice is a personal preference thing. You won't go wrong with either one.

Hank