Anyone use the "rockler plate glass sharpening system"

[dennis thompson]

Based on the very helpful info I've gotten here I plan to by the LV medium shoulder plane, so I guess I need to begin to learn to sharpen. Has anyone use the "Rockler plate glass sharpening system"? at $34 it seems like a pretty reasonably priced and fairly simple system(assuming it works of course).
Thanks
Dennis

[Ben Davis]

I have not. I am going to pull the trigger today on a WS3000 system purchased through Woodcraft. I received a 10% discount coupon in the mail good for April 10th only, and they have free shipping. For all of the decent reviews that it has received, it seems like a very reasonably priced alternative to the Tormek systems.

[Jamie Cowan]

Not to get off topic, but Ben, I'd love to hear how you like the Worksharp 3000 after you use it a bit. I've been thinking of getting one because every time I buy a used plane or chisel, it seems like the edge needs a lot of work with the waterstones. I'd like to take a shortcut. The Tormek looks nice, but a bit pricey, plus all the jugs and stuff. Worksharp looks like it might be a go.

As for the Rockler plate glass system, I haven't seen it. Is it just the materials for scary sharp? If so, it should be fine, and a whole lot cheaper than a bunch of stones.

[Brian Kent]

Yes, Dennis. That's where I started and I almost recommend it. The system has a honing guide, a plate glass and a choice of 2 sets of sandpaper - coarse or medium (which is called "fine"). I get nervous about the glass breaking and the sandpaper does not continue to a fine enough grit for final blade honing.

I recommend that you improve on the set for a little less money:

1) same honing guide, from Tools for Working Wood ($10.05)

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=EE-HG-800-1800&Category_Code=

2) Instead of glass, get a 12" square polished granite or marble tile from Home Depot ($4 to $7). They always have a couple of tiles available that have a glossy look. It's good to test the flatness by looking at the reflection to see if there is any visual distortion.

3) 3M Microabrasive (PSA type - "Pressure Sensitive Adhesive") from Tools for Working Wood. The best set for the money is the sample pack of either 1 each or 2 each of 5 different grits ($12 or $23).

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/indextool.mvc?prodid=ST-MAF.XX

Total cost for the equivalent as the Rockler set is about $30.

Lee Valley has the same honing guide and the 3M microabrasives in 3 grits but I have found that I need one more coarser grit than they sell (40 micron). You can make up for it with about a 400 grit automotive sandpaper.


I cut strips of all of grits and put them in order on the tile, adjacent to an edge so I an flatten the back of a blade without scratching it on the edge of the tile. I set it on my shooting board for storage right next to my bench and so that I won't move around as I sharpen:

[Tim Johnson]

Get yourself some 1/2" MDF, some regular sandpaper, and order some of the finer grades from LV or elsewhere, and a can of spray adhesive. You can use any angle guide you like, there are several types depending on the types of blades you typically sharpen. Cut the MDF into sizes that you will use to hold the sandpaper after applying a light coat of spray adhesive, I use the full size of the sandpaper sheet and have about 6 different pieces of MDF, each with a different grade of sandpaper attached. When I have one sheet really used up, I'll peel it off and re-attach a new sheet. Works for me, and is cheap, although some will debate the cost of sandpaper, it is still cheaper than the disks for special sharpening machine. After working through the sandpapers, I finish on a 8000 grit waterstone, and honing compound on a scrap piece of MDF. I think there are some videos out there on the sandpaper methods and using honing compound. Knowing how to properly sharpen your tools to make the work easier is time well spent IMO.

[Brian Kent]

Tim,

What is the advantage of the 8000 waterstone over a really fine micro-abrasive? Is it the solidity, consistency, feel? I just started with scary sharp because of initial cost.

[Jim Koepke]

2) Instead of glass, get a 12" square polished granite or marble tile from Home Depot ($4 to $7). They always have a couple of tiles available that have a glossy look. It's good to test the flatness by looking at the reflection to see if there is any visual distortion.


Heck, just carry it over to the tool department and check it with a straight edge or framing square. Sometimes, you can find odd pieces on closeout for as little as $1 each. Who cares if the colors don't match your coffee maker? I have a few of these and they work fine.

I got lucky when a friend was putting in granite counters and had a scrap piece that was about 4"X25" that works great. A half sheet of sand paper goes over the edges enough that I can rig it up in my bench vise.

In the long run, the thing to consider is each method of sharpening blades has its merits and drawbacks.

Scary sharp has a low initial investment. The drawback is one always has to buy new abrasives. If one is not careful, the abrasives can "bubble" in front of the blade and round it over. Finding the finer abrasives can have you driving all over town. I have recently noticed many of the local stores around here do not carry abrasives in packages of more than 15 sheets and seldom anything finer than 400 grit.

Oil stones are more traditional. They have a moderate starting price. They are hard so do not need dressing as much as water stones. They are hard to find in wide sizes. They cut a little slower than scary sharp, water or diamond stones and the finer the grit, the more expensive the stone for the larger sizes. My understanding is the finest oil stones are about 9 micron grit size. There are stones for honing razor blades that are finer than this. I know they used to be available through barber supply firms. Not sure if this is still the case. They also did not use oil, they were for finishing the edge on a straight razor. I quit using one of those years ago, but still have the stones. Maybe I should get the old guy out. This is the first winter in many that I have grown a beard and they are easier to take off with straight razor than those disposables. I was thinking of using a wide chisel.

Water stones cut fast. They do come in very fine grits. They do have a higher start up cost than some other methods. Some do not like the mess of water stones. They need flattening on a regular basis. The coarser grits may need to be soaked a few minutes before use.

My only experience with diamond plates is the small one in the kitchen used on knives. I can get knives sharper on my water stones, but the wife does not like them that sharp. She didn't like my comment about if you can feel it when it cuts your finger off, then it is dull.:mad:

Also have not used Spyderco ceramic stones. Though the endorsement they have received from George Wilson has me thinking I may buy a set in the future.

There are probably methods, benefits and drawbacks missing in the synopsis above. Hopefully, others will add their opinions and experiences so we can have a reference on sharpening methods for future use.

jim

[Tim Johnson]

Brian,
I use the waterstone because I already had it on hand. I converted from stones to sandpaper because I thought it was easier than the messy wet stones and trying to keep them flat. I have some sheets of the micro-abrasive around somewhere, I think from LV, but the 8000 grit stone only takes a little water sprinkled on it, so it is one of those familiar things that we all develop and I've continued it because I guess I like the scraping on the stone ??

[Jim Koepke]

Tim,

What is the advantage of the 8000 waterstone over a really fine micro-abrasive? Is it the solidity, consistency, feel? I just started with scary sharp because of initial cost.

Locally, the finest grit abrasive paper that can be bought is 2000 grade. That is about 6µ. (I am curious if others can see the mu, µ, symbol or if I should type out micron. I wonder the same with the cent, ¢, symbol.)

And 8000 grit water stone, depending on the maker, is in the 1-1.2µ range.

A quick look at Lee Valley shows a 5µ abrasive. I am sure others are available.

5µ makes for an incredibly sharp edge that can shave hair. A 4000 and 8000 stone can get it sharper still. At 4000, I can still barely feel the hair being cut. Done properly with an 8000 stone, it feels like the edge is sliding over my skin and surprises me when lifted because a ball of hair is on the blade and there is a bald section on my arm. A less sharp blade will leave hair behind or you can feel the hair pulling a bit. To me, it seems a finer stone would have hair on my arm running away from the blade. Maybe that is the true meaning of "scary" sharp.

jim

[Brian Kent]

I can see your µ just fine (You made me search to find out how to do that on my mac keyboard - Option m).

Tools for Working Wood also has a 1µ and a .3µ.

It may just be my imagination, but I like using them to finish up.

Their full set is 40µ, 15µ, 5µ, 1µ and .3µ. Plus now that I know how to do it, it's good practice making the "µ" symbol.

[Tim Johnson]

Jim,
Thanks for the measurements of the various sharpening steps or grits. I didn't really know how fine they were, but knew that the shine got better with every step so I just kept doing it that way and have been very pleased with the results.

[Griph0n Brown]

I bought the worksharp and it was/is great. I had sharp square edges (really sharp) for the first time.

I started getting a few more planes, older flea market ones from my father down south , including a no.7 and 8, and got some glass plates and wet dry paper. Lapping went well, but sharpenning the wider plane irons freehand was frustrating for a beginner. Comparing them to the worksharp jig sharpened blades, not perfect.

So i got a veritas II guide and used it with the glass and paper.

Wow.

Much improved edge on all the plane and chisel blades. Really, much better. The price of paper and my wait time for the worksharp disks has convinced me to order a set of stones (wide enough for the no. 8 iron) from Lee Valley. Takes a while for mailorder to arrive up here so I'm glad it's only once.

I still may use the worksharp for rehabbing and touching up, but the veritas jig is just as fast. I think the stones cost will balance out over the years (nice rationalization, I just WANTED them). But it was getting annoying having to shell out for paper, and I hated pulling off sheets and throwing them away.

It's been fun experimenting and learning. Maybe with the stones I'll try it without the jig. Now...how much does a variable speed grinder cost.......

[Jim Koepke]

Tim, you are welcome, there is a chart here:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1062936&page=2

You may have to scroll down to find it as a link to a .pdf

I think I will try to get it linked in the Neander Wisdom FAQ thread.


I can see your µ just fine (You made me search to find out how to do that on my mac keyboard - Option m).

Thanks Brian, I figure Mac users won't have a problem, I was wondering more about PC and Unix users. BTW, the ¢ is option 4.

˘¿˘ @¿@ •¿•

I like the little emoticons too,

jim

[glenn bradley]

I use marble tile (the BORG will cut it in half for free) for the coarse grits and glass for the finer grits up to .3 micron. I have a WS3000 and it is hard to tell the difference other than the fact that I built the scarey sharp setup fro a lot less than $200 ;-) http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=374234#poststop

[Justin Cavender]

I Just started sharpening a month ago using a guide and paper on granite and I get a mirror edge at 2000 grit but I am ordering 1 micron and .3 micron from japanwoodworker tomorow I use alot of rock maple and the 2000 grit edge just dont cut it. But any other wood I have tried to plane has cut like butter.

[Jim Koepke]

I use my power sharpening unit mostly for getting rid of nicks, pits or flattening the backs of blades. Mostly this is when an old blade is bought or if a blade goes too long before sharpening. If the blade is sharpened before it wears too much, then it can usually be brought to a keen edge with just a little work on the stones.

jim

[Dan Karachio]

Man, I wish I could go back in time. I bought a set of Norton stones, a Veritas honing guide and while they are fine and I am getting good results my initial hesitance at the price of a worksharp or even tormek is now completely absurd since I have spent as much or more. I guess I am learning more about sharpening in the end. Still, it is tough. I cannot imaging a more popular topic with so many opinions.

[Jim Koepke]

Man, I wish I could go back in time. I bought a set of Norton stones, a Veritas honing guide and while they are fine and I am getting good results my initial hesitance at the price of a worksharp or even tormek is now completely absurd since I have spent as much or more. I guess I am learning more about sharpening in the end. Still, it is tough. I cannot imaging a more popular topic with so many opinions.

I think you will find that there is not one be all end all system for sharpening. Even with perfect stones, there are times when a powered system will bring an ill treated blade back to life much quicker than by manual labors.

Even with the best powered systems, there are times when using stones or paper backed abrasives is a more expedient path to take.

In my accumulation of blades, there are a couple that are of no use in their present state. They have damage up to a half inch away from the edge. When time allows, they will get cut with a dremel, then a bevel will be ground using a powered abrasive system.

Each powered system has its advantages. Each powered system has its limitations. My system uses flat plates with replaceable abrasive disks. It can not produce a hollow grind. There are other quirks in the system, but what system does not have a quirk or two?

My system comes with plates in two thicknesses. The theory is the thick plates are for the coarse abrasives and the thinner plates hold the finer abrasive. The effect is to create a micro bevel. If one does not want micro bevels on all their blades, then one needs to buy another plate. Even doing this, there is an effective micro bevel due to the difference in thickness from coarse to fine abrasive sheets changing the geometry. If one wants to, this can all be compensated in different ways.

So as long as there is more than one way to bring and edge to keen, there will be plenty of room for discussion.

jim