First Shoulder Plane Reccomendations

[Chris Norman]

Hi All,

I'm fairly new to Handtool usage and am just starting to aquire tools as I need them. So far I have a #5 Jack plane a #7 Jointer and LA Block plane.

My first big project is to build my Roubo bench.

I've never done mortise and tenon joinery with hand tools, but from what I've read a shoulder plane will be very useful for tuning the tenons. I see several vendors that carry shoulder planes in 3/4", 1" and 1-1/4" sizes.

My question is: I know a 1-1/4" shoulder plane will be useful for the large tenons when building the Roubo, but if that is the one shoulder plane I were to get right now, is that size too bulky for most furniture size joinery (Rabbets, and tenons)?

Thanks,

Chris

[Charles Shenk]

To me the three main players are Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Stanley.

If it were me, I would look at the Stanley 92's. They can be both a shoulder plane and a chisel plane. They are quite useful. You can still buy them new (at least you could a year or two ago) and many are on the large auction site.

[Mark Singer]

The Lee Valley medium is really good

[Dave Cav]

Another vote for the medium L. V. I'm building a more or less conventional workbench and my L.V. medium shoulder plane was real handy for trimming and cleaning up tennons on the leg stretchers.

[glenn bradley]

+1 LV medium. I got to compare several side by side at the show. It makes a difference to get your hands on them. When that's not possible, the Creeker's comments are the next best thing. For tenon fitting or any kind of tongue work, it rocks.

[Todd Bin]

This may throw a little wrench in your decision. Have you considered the LN joinery floats. They have a couple of very nice floats that work very well on tenons. They are also not very expensive --$60 or so.

[Michael Sobik]

I just finished my Roubo, and I have to say my LV medium wasn't much help. The tenons on this bench are enormous and the medium just isn't big enough. I used a block plane and cleaned up the shoulder left behind with a chisel.

However, on regular sized furniture the LV medium is fantastic. I'd buy it again...along with a rabbeting block plane for tenon cheeks.

[David Keller NC]

"My question is: I know a 1-1/4" shoulder plane will be useful for the large tenons when building the Roubo, but if that is the one shoulder plane I were to get right now, is that size too bulky for most furniture size joinery (Rabbets, and tenons)?"

To actually answer your question instead of recommend a specific tool - you're thinking correctly here. While it is possible to make a shoulder plane that's too large work on smaller things, ideally the plane should be sized to your work.

And - A workbench, while it shouldn't be really sloppy, isn't a piece of furniture that requires oh-so-tight shoulder lines on tenons.

Buy a good set of chisels. With a little practice, they are capable of doing most of what a shoulder plane will do.

[Chris Norman]

Thanks for the replies everone.

I'm curious if anyone has experience using the large size shoulder planes. Is there any reason to not get the large size over the medium. Obviously both would be a nice option but that's not in the cards right now.

My thinking is that the large shoulder plane will work well building the Roubo, and the only task it won't do for smaller scale furniture work is cleaning up Dado's.

The other option is a rabbeting block plane.

Thoughts?

[glenn bradley]

The large was too specific for me when I was deciding. There were too many things it would not do for me. I can always take two strokes on the medium but I can't take a narrow stroke with the large. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have one but, its use would be occasional as a dresser is about the biggest thing I build.

I almost went with the rabbeting plane as it is advised by some as a good starter for those who don't have a shoulder plane. In use, the front sole was too small for the tasks I had planned (tenons and breadboard tongues). This is probably partly due to my ability. I just couldn't get a reliable, repeatable registration with the Little footy. For the breadboard stuff I would benefit from the large model shoulder plane but it was too cumbersome for apron tenons (for me).

[Tri Hoang]

The rabbeting block plane would probably too big for the shoulders but you can use it to trim the tenons. Typical shoulders are quite narrow. With the LV medium, you are set to work with shoulders as wide as 3/4" or roughly 2" stock.

While you are considering rabbeting block plane, I would recommend the LV skew rabbet plane instead. It will trim tennons, and work with large shoulders (such as ones on Roubo bench)...although chisels would give more control. It can also cut rabbets and raised pannels.


Thanks for the replies everone.

I'm curious if anyone has experience using the large size shoulder planes. Is there any reason to not get the large size over the medium. Obviously both would be a nice option but that's not in the cards right now.

My thinking is that the large shoulder plane will work well building the Roubo, and the only task it won't do for smaller scale furniture work is cleaning up Dado's.

The other option is a rabbeting block plane.

Thoughts?

[David Gendron]

I would go with the LV medium if you need one shoulder plane. As for you banch, chisels and rasp work also great, as David K said, it's not a piece of furniture and if you draw bore your joint, it wont move a bit... On my Roubo, the tenon shoulders are not perfect and it is realy stable and sturdy.
David

[Chris Norman]

Thanks everyone, This is exactly the advice I needed.

Since it sounds like the Medium Shoulder plane is the most useful, but not so useful for building the bench I think I'll probably hold off until I get the bench built to pull the trigger on the LV.

I'll just tweak the bench tenons with my rabbet plane, chisels and rasps for now. I do plan on drawboring the joints on the ends so that should help.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Buy a good set of chisels. With a little practice, they are capable of doing most of what a shoulder plane will do.

I agree 100% with David. I think sholder planes are really over rated tools. A good sharp chisel will get you much further than a shoulder plane. Chisels are capable of undercutting the shoulder, a shoulder plane cannot. If your tenon cheek is not perfectly parallel with your tenon stock sides, then a shoulder plane will actually make matters worse. Since it will be riding on an untrue tenon cheek (the reference surface when planing shoulders) it will subsequently plane your shoulders out of square. A chisel needs no reference surface. I had the LV medium and sold it long ago. No shoulder planes for me. My chisels do a much better job.

[Charles Shenk]

Bob- I mostly agree, but my small LN shoulder plane gets used all the time. I clean up dados, make dados/rabbits uniform in depth (often in plywood which is usually slightly warped), and others which escape me now... However, I have never felt the need or desire for another.

[David Keller NC]

I'm curious if anyone has experience using the large size shoulder planes. Is there any reason to not get the large size over the medium. Obviously both would be a nice option but that's not in the cards right now.

My thinking is that the large shoulder plane will work well building the Roubo, and the only task it won't do for smaller scale furniture work is cleaning up Dado's.

The other option is a rabbeting block plane.

Thoughts?

One aspect of this is that while a large shoulder plane can be made to work on a small tenon shoulder, you can't make a small shoulder plane work on a large tenon so that the sole of the plane is narrower than the distance from the tenon itself to the edge of the shoulder (in other words, the plane's too narrow to cut the shoulder and register against the side of the tenon). The difficulty of making a large shoulder plane work on a small tenon is that the sole's a whole lot longer than the tenon shoulder, and as a result, it's difficult to get a consistent shaving from one end of the shoulder to the other. After a few strokes, you no longer have a shoulder that's 90 degrees to the length of the rail.

Also, while it is possible to use a rabbet block plane to trim tenon shoulders, this is definitely not what the tool is designed for - it's designed for trimming tenon cheeks. The difficulty with using it as a shoulder plane is that the sides of the plane are too short to extend past the length of the tenon, so it's difficult to grip the plane properly to square a shoulder.

I do, by the way, have shoulder planes with soles from 3/8" wide to 1-1/2" wide, and do occasionally use them instead of chisels. That said, if you develop skill with a good chisel, you don't need a shoulder plane - it's a "nice to have".

[Jeff Wright]

I enjoyed attending an all-day hand tool session with Rob Cosman yesterday and watched as he used a small router plane to trim tenons. This is the tool he used with great success:

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=271

[Bill McDermott]

Since you said you have a #5 and a #7, you may want to add a block plane to your kit. The Block Rabbet planes (e.g. L-N) will work on tenons, cheeks and the like. They will also serve as a low angle block on end grain and the like. Not optimal for either, but servicable for both - and much more.

If you already have a block plane, nevermind. I have an old #92 that is and extremely handy tool. Highly recommend it, or any of the new and improved models.

Shoulder planes allow you to move much more quickly as a beginner, knowing you can get accuracy with a shoulder plane - after intentionally cutting fat with a saw.

It's difficult for me to get good results with a chisel. I respect those who can, and continue to make efforts. When I need it to be right, a plane is far more reliable.