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Allan Froehlich
04-13-2009, 4:54 PM
Hello all,

I am about to purchase a Lee Valley wood plane.

I already have the Lee Valley low-angle Jack plane and a Stanley block plane (made to work well.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49708&cat=1,41182,48944

I am thinking about a smoothing plane and I like the bevel-up planes so far. My only experience with the bevel-down planes is a $20 stanley, which does not work very well. I would appreciate any recommendations.

I'd like the plane to be able to work well in figured lumber such as curly maple.

Here is what I am thinking about:
Veritas Bevel-up smoothing plane
Veritas Low-angle smoothing plane
Veritas #4 smoothing plane
Veritas #4 1/2 smoothing plane

Jim Koepke
04-13-2009, 5:14 PM
I do not have experience with the LV planes.

My curiosity is wondering about the $20 Stanley that gave you problems.

What kind of problems?

Do you know when it was made?

Hopefully others will step in with words of experience on the LV planes that have your interest.

jim

Allan Froehlich
04-13-2009, 5:20 PM
The Stanley dulls very easily and the sole was crowned about about 0.010 inches. it is probably 20 years old.

Jim Koepke
04-13-2009, 5:59 PM
The Stanley dulls very easily and the sole was crowned about about 0.010 inches. it is probably 20 years old.

For some reason, a lot of American manufactures or consumers decided price was the most important consideration when buying products. Someone told me the same happened to Craftsman tools from Sears.

One of my former co-workers was always exuberant about how cheap he could get tools. He was not bothered that they broke or didn't do the job well, after all, they were cheap!

For this reason, none of my Stanley planes is of later manufacture than about 1930. There are a few exceptions to this, but it is a rule that is not often ignored.

Almost all of my bench planes are pre-1910.

jim

Allan Froehlich
04-13-2009, 6:10 PM
For some reason, a lot of American manufactures or consumers decided price was the most important consideration when buying products. Someone told me the same happened to Craftsman tools from Sears.

One of my former co-workers was always exuberant about how cheap he could get tools. He was not bothered that they broke or didn't do the job well, after all, they were cheap!

For this reason, none of my Stanley planes is of later manufacture than about 1930. There are a few exceptions to this, but it is a rule that is not often ignored.

Almost all of my bench planes are pre-1910.

jim

Because of this, I believed that all planes were created equal and I avoided hand tools. I only learned that there was such a thing as a high-quality hand plane when one of the people at a local Woodcraft allowed me to make a few passes with one. I was immediately sold (well, I had to save for a few weeks).

Dominic Greco
04-13-2009, 7:15 PM
Allan,
I was given a Veritas LA Smoother several Xmases ago and really love using it. It's versitile and easy to use. Up until I got my LN#9 it was my "go to" shoot board plane.

I recently installed a 50 Deg bevel iron in my LA Smoother and was really pleased with the way it handled tough grained woods. I was working with some Ambrosia Maple that has some reversing grain and was a general PITA to plane. But a couple swipes with the LA Smoother cleaned it right up.

Tom Adger
04-13-2009, 7:58 PM
I am reminded of the video that Ron Hock has on his website. A comment that stands out in my mind is "a hand plane is nothing more than a holder for a blade". This is true. I look back at a comment an earlier poster made about the sole of the Stanley he has is not flat. So why didn't he flatten it and get on with it? There are a lot of articles out there about how to tune up a hand plane.

I am also amused about the comments I read that if a plane was not made before this year or that, it is not worth having. Hogwash. There are very good planes being made. It boils down to how much descretionary money you have to spend, combined with how much effort you want to spend in tuning it up.

Allan Froehlich
04-14-2009, 1:28 AM
I ordered the LV Bevel-up-smoothing plane.

Jim Koepke
04-14-2009, 2:59 AM
I am also amused about the comments I read that if a plane was not made before this year or that, it is not worth having. Hogwash. There are very good planes being made. It boils down to how much descretionary money you have to spend, combined with how much effort you want to spend in tuning it up.

There are definitely some very good planes being made today. However, since these days I have a much larger supply of effort than discretionary income, it is my choice to buy old used planes. This is surely not the best path for everyone.

I have tuned up, used and sold Stanley planes made in the '40s, '50s and '60s. They just did not have the appeal the earlier planes have to me. Maybe it is the rose wood handles on the older planes, maybe it is something else.

One of my preferences is for a low knob. These do not work well when there is a ring cast around where the base of the knob sits. That feature came along around 1929. The frog adjustment screw was added to the Bailey style planes around 1907. This is a feature that is nice, but adds a little premium to the cost. Living without it lets me buy some nice planes for a few dollars less.

Also, the lines of the Bailey style plane appeals to me. If my income was higher, the early Bedrocks might be my choice. Surely, others like the flat sides of the later Bedrocks or the current Lie-Nielsen offerings. Some like straight lines, some like curved lines.

Finally, fettling old planes, for me, is a source of great enjoyment. It may not be so for others. There have been some long laments on this subject to make it clear it is not something for everybody.

An old Bailey #8 recently set me back $50. It took me two or three hours to get it into decent shape. Even when I was working, that three hours would have only made me about $110. Looking at it in that light, it still cost less than a new Lie-Nielsen. Of course it does not have all the bells and whistles, but it still takes a shaving off a hunk of wood and leaves a nice surface. Besides, there isn't anyone writing me a paycheck these days, so my time is my time.

Everyone has different needs and/or amounts of discretionary dollars versus the time available to convert rust to luster. Your Milage May Vary, and it is sure to be different than anyone else's.

When one buys a plane from LN or LV, they will stand behind your purchase. When a purchase is made at a yard sale, an antique dealer or from eBay, the buyer is pretty much stuck with what ever they get. A couple of clunkers didn't set me back as much as a couple of junkers bought for parts that turned out to be good planes set me ahead. It comes, it goes, it evens out in the end.

jim

Allan Froehlich
04-14-2009, 7:20 AM
An old Bailey #8 recently set me back $50. It took me two or three hours to get it into decent shape. Even when I was working, that three hours would have only made me about $110. Looking at it in that light, it still cost less than a new Lie-Nielsen. Of course it does not have all the bells and whistles, but it still takes a shaving off a hunk of wood and leaves a nice surface. Besides, there isn't anyone writing me a paycheck these days, so my time is my time.

But once you put your own blood, sweat and tears into it, the real value cannot be measured in dollars.

I probably spent 4-5 hours trying to get the sole on that Stanley flat and I had very nice results. I then spent an hour or two tuning the blade. BUT, I cannot describe the feeling you get when you take a few light passed on some oak and the edge of the blade is already chewed up.

Maybe I'll buy a higher quality replacement blade for it some day.

Jim Koepke
04-14-2009, 1:03 PM
I cannot describe the feeling you get when you take a few light passed on some oak and the edge of the blade is already chewed up.

That would be a bummer. It sounds like your blade was not properly hardened if the plane was purchased new. I have an old blade or two that seemed like they were soft. It may have been due to mishandling by a former owner.

jim

Allan Froehlich
04-19-2009, 1:47 AM
Update:

I received my bevel-up smoother on Friday. I honed the blade and set it up for a light pass across some figured maple. Once I squared the blade to the bed, I managed to get shavings of 0.001 inches!

David Gendron
04-19-2009, 1:54 AM
What is the thikest shaving you can get on the same board with out tearout?
I mean, it's nice to be abble to get thin shaving but you also want the job done as fast as possible:rolleyes:... You don't want to do 50 passes if you can obtain the same result with 10;)!

Allan Froehlich
04-19-2009, 2:03 AM
What is the thikest shaving you can get on the same board with out tearout?
I mean, it's nice to be abble to get thin shaving but you also want the job done as fast as possible:rolleyes:... You don't want to do 50 passes if you can obtain the same result with 10;)!

U picked up this BUS for final smoothing. When removing lots of material, I use my low-angle jack. Depending on the grain, I've been able to take shavings of probably 0.010 and more, but a finishing pass is still needed.