One or two skew rabbet planes

[Tri Hoang]

I've been looking at the Veritas skew rabbet planes. There is a little incentive for getting both at the same time ($50 difference). I understand that the left and right versions are there to avoid going against the grain. How often do you find that you need both? One of the thing I'd like to try is cutting raised panels with it.

[Mat Ashton]

That would be one of those purchases where you vary rarely need to pull out both planes but you'll be thankful you bought both when you do encounter a piece of gnarly maple, cherry or walnut... where tearout can be quite large and deep.

[Mike Cutler]

Get both if you can. If you can only get one, get the one for your dominant hand first. You will eventually want both though.;)

[Jim Nardi]

I've been at it for quite a while and never found a need for one. You can make a shelf thinner quickly. A good sharp knife will make a grove a tiny bit bigger in a hurry as well.

[Jim Koepke]

For raised panel work, these might be just the ticket.

I have a few skewed rabbet planes, but most of them are wood bodied.

If I had the money and was going to do a lot of raised panels, I would tell my wife this was a good investment. Not sure she would believe me, but she might let me get them any way.

jim

[Chris Friesen]

I've been looking at the Veritas skew rabbet planes. There is a little incentive for getting both at the same time ($50 difference). I understand that the left and right versions are there to avoid going against the grain. How often do you find that you need both? One of the thing I'd like to try is cutting raised panels with it.

It's true that there are circumstances where it would be beneficial to have both. However, it's not absolutely critical. Often the rabbet cut by one of these planes won't be visible, so a little bit of tearout may not be a problem. Other times, setting the plane for a very thin shaving may be sufficient to tame the tearout.

[Jim Koepke]

It's true that there are circumstances where it would be beneficial to have both. However, it's not absolutely critical. Often the rabbet cut by one of these planes won't be visible, so a little bit of tearout may not be a problem. Other times, setting the plane for a very thin shaving may be sufficient to tame the tearout.

I think the planed area on raised panels will be quite visible.

jim

[David Keller NC]

"How often do you find that you need both? One of the thing I'd like to try is cutting raised panels with it."

Tri - I do all raised panels with hand tools, exclusively. While I do have the necessary router bit and table, making a raised panel this way is, in my opinion, a dangerous operation.

There are lots of tools to make raised panels - one can use a knife (to score the shoulder), a rabbet plane to make a tongue and lower the ground from the knife line (either a wooden rabbet plane, a wooden moving fillister, a skew block like the LN 140, the Veritas skew rabbets, or quite a few antique Stanleys), and finally a rabbeting block plane, bench rabbet plane, a wooden "badger plane", or a plane old block plane to cut the taper down to the tongue (if you make a tongue - most raised panels in old furniture don't have tongues).

However - the fastest, most efficient way to make a raised panel is with a wooden panel raising plane. They offer the greatest variety of widths (typically, a few fractions of an inch to as much as 3" on the larger ones), and a much longer sole length. This matters when doing it by hand - otherwise, it's really easy to cut a sloping bevel that's thicker at one end than the other, which makes getting a crisp beveled corner difficult. Moreover, the metal fences on some metal rabbet planes that give you an automatic tilt when continuing to plane are not suitable for softer woods - the rubbing of the thin metal fence on the top of the panel creates an unacceptable scar. This is also true of some of the metal planes when fitted with an auxillary wooden fence because the fence will not fit unless it's thin (same problem as a metal fence).

My thought on the Veritas skew rabbets is that it's an excellent tool for making rabbets (as is my preference, the left and right hand versions of the Lie-Nielsen 140). Not so good as a panel raising plane - too short, and too limited a bevel width.

[Tri Hoang]

Thanks, David, for pointing out potential issues that I did not even consider.

On a side note, I wonder if there is a book/online reference on how traditional woodworking was done with hand tools only.

[David Keller NC]

"On a side note, I wonder if there is a book/online reference on how traditional woodworking was done with hand tools only."

There are lots of old tools resources on the web, but other than modern woodworker's blogs and such, I don't know of any online, relatively modern sources. There are, of course, really old texts in Google book search (such as Joseph Moxon's Mechanic Exercises, and I think Nicholson as well), but the more modern texts that deal with the basics of 4-squaring wood, planing, sawing, etc... are, to my knowledge, only available in book form.

One of the classics is Charles Hayward's Carpentry for Beginners. Despite its title, there's a great deal about furniture making with hand tools in it. Also by the same author - "Woodwork Joints" is highly recommended.

There are others - Audel's Carpenter's Guide (reprinted by Lee Valley) comes to mind, but perhaps others may want to chime in here.

As far as a dedicated panel raiser, you've two choices - new or antique (really antique, as in 100 years plus). Clark and Williams are the only firm that I know of that make traditional, English style wooden panel raisers (I have one for sale in the classifieds, btw). However, Philly Planes also makes a small version designed to work drawer bottoms.

As far as antiques, my suggestion is to go with someone that knows wooden planes rather than e-bay. A wooden panel raiser in good condition is a treat to use; an abused one yields not much but frustration.

If you want to go for an antique wooden panel raiser, I would suggest calling Lee Richmond at The Best Things. He's easily the most knowledgeable wooden plane dealer anywhere, and scrupulously describes his items. Also a nice guy to talk to, and will understand the difference between a request for a good, usable plane and a collector's item.

[David Gendron]

I have the one for my dominant hand and don't see a use for the other hand, ia find with the skew blade and a light shaving if I have to and can get by easely!
David

[Dave Lehnert]

Was it Popular Woodworking that address this very issue. ?????

I remember reading it said that one did not absolutely need each.

[Hank Knight]

Tri,

I made two pair of small raised panels in curly cherry last weekend with left handed and right handed LN 140s. I couldn't have done it with only one plane. The grain reversals were terrible and it took both LH and RH planes to tame it. As much as I respect the those who have stated otherwise, I believe panel raising is one place where having both left handed and right handed planes really helps, especially if you're working difficult wood.

My $.02.

Hank

[Bob Strawn]

If you stick to 90 degree cuts across or with woodgrain and straight lined wood, then one skew rabbet is probably OK. If you go for other angles, then you will regularly run into issues where you will be working across the grain. A left handed skew rabbet is mission critical for a lot of what I do, but I like 60 and 30 degree angles.

Bob

[Joel Moskowitz]

I have raised month than one panel with a good old bnech plane - very easy to do if you don't want the step in the middle of the field.

For panels with a step I have had great success with a regular rebate plane - a wide one with no skew. - do the ends first so any splitting out because you are cutting perpendicular to the grain will get erased when you plane the sides. And of course a regular - non skew plane goes in both directions.

[Tri Hoang]

It's interesting that one could raise panels with a regular plane. I assume that one needs some kind of fence to guide the plane along.

Would anyone care to give a little more details on how it's done? Thanks.

[Joel Moskowitz]

for a panel without a center field with a step just mark the final edge thickness with a gauge and also the untouched area in the middle. With a bench plane held askew and at an angle plane both ends until you hit the edge and the field line on the face. The key is planing evenly so you get a flat, angled surface, not a belly. Don't worry too much about splitting out at the edges. Then plane the side the same way, paying attention to the grain and going in whatever direction makes sense.
this is a great way to make a quick, simple raised panel.

For a panel with a step you need some wort of shoulder or rabate plane to plane up to the step. planing with the grain is easy. To do the ends you have to either define the step with a saw, or series of knife cuts, or use a tool with a nicker, like a dado plane or moving fillister.

Both these methods work great for the occasional raised panel - and how many panels do you raise in a year? If I needed to raise panels more frequently I would get a proper panel raising plane.
I think however my real point is that what you don't want is a plane with a skew because then you end up needed two of them. Now it's true that on a lot of planes the skew is so slight so that it has little detrimental effect - but in that case why bother with a skew in the first place?

[Sean Hughto]

Joel has explained how it's done. I just wanted to say i agree and add some pictures:

potential resources:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3102/3126403375_d74a4eaa7b.jpg

one you might not have thought of:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3221/3126403133_19e27fb2a1.jpg

a large shoulder is particularly good:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/3126402855_2f69b0c384.jpg

the end result:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3118/3126402675_967a01d4b6.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3098/3127231594_1221d7d933.jpg

FWIW, on tricky grains, like this curly cherry, I think method of using what you have is likely to work better than a fixed fenced plane because you have more flexibility on angles of attack and such so you can avoid tearout more.`

[Joel Moskowitz]

Sean,
Thanks for the pictures. You actually do it a little different than i but that's simeply because we have different tools handy. There are so many ways of raising a panel with regular tools. However your last bit on tricky grain is spot on and should be emphisized. The minute you use tools that let you plane from any direction most of the grain problems become trivial.

[Tri Hoang]

Joel,
Thank you for going back with some details. It's definitely enlightening.

Sean,
Beautifully done. The pictures are fantastic and need little explanation.