PDA

View Full Version : Making a dovetail plane, Part I



Ken Werner
04-17-2009, 11:39 PM
Derek Cohen has written a very nice piece on making a dovetail plane. I decided to try my hand at this project, and thought I'd post my progress. Derek's article can be found here:
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Evolving%20a%20Dovetail%20Plane.html

Anyway, here goes:

I began with an old skewed rabbet plane I bought for the purpose from my co-dependent planeaholic pal John Keeton. I know it is heresy to so treat a nice old tool. That is a given. Hopefully the end result will justify my actions. You can see that the plane has been re-soled before. This turned out to be a good thing.http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_1.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=1.jpg)

I planed the body smooth. Yes, this removed the lovely patina, but left me with flat sides, which are better than the waves it came with.http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_3bodyafterplaning.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=3bodyafterplaning.jpg)

Using my dovetail marker, I made lines to plane to, to set the 9 degree angle. I planed to my marks.
http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_2dovetailmarker.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=2dovetailmarker.jpg)[/URL]
You can see the results of the Underhill rite of human sacrifice, when planing the sides of the plane, my pinky got caught between the working metal plane body and the very sharp edge of the hole in the middle of the wood plane. Thought I got pinched until blood started showing up on the work.
http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_4solewithbevel.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=2dovetailmarker.jpg)
I made a sidepiece, which is necessary for the fillister, which comes along later. It is screwed to the body.

http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_5soleandsidepiece.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=4solewithbevel.jpg)
I had a piece of 3/16 x 3/16 tool steel. This I ground to a 30 degree bevel, with a rounded tip. It will be fitted into a dado along the side of the plane's body, and will be useful for cross grain cuts.

http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_6slitterandscoredbody.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=5soleandsidepiece.jpg)
More in the next day or so.
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=6slitterandscoredbody.jpg)[URL="http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=1.jpg"]

Zahid Naqvi
04-18-2009, 12:10 AM
Great thread Ken, I want to make one too.

John Keeton
04-18-2009, 4:53 AM
.....from my co-dependent planeaholic pal John Keeton.Nothing like having your addiction "outed" to the entire cyberworld.":D:D I thought I had been very discreet and no one knew??

You sure jump in on this and made some progress, Ken - anxious to see the end result, and the trial run!

Doug Shepard
04-18-2009, 7:34 AM
...
I began with an old skewed rabbet plane I bought for the purpose from my co-dependent planeaholic pal John Keeton....

Was that WTB John Keeton or the other John Keeton?:confused::D

Cant wait to see the end result.

Ken Werner
04-18-2009, 7:45 AM
Doug, is there more than one John Keeton here? In my case, it is the plane FS John Keeton. See post above yours Doug.

And to Mr. Keeton: oops. Didn't realize I was the only one [excluding you] aware of your, shall we say, attraction, to planes.

Ken

Pam Niedermayer
04-18-2009, 8:48 AM
Don't you have to constantly adjust the fence on the bottom as you're planing to get the proper shaped cut?

Pam

Ken Werner
04-18-2009, 8:53 AM
No Pam, hopefully it will become clearer as the build progresses. The fillister sets the depth of the male part of the sliding DT.

Ken

Eric Hartunian
04-18-2009, 10:08 AM
I was just thinking of doing this with an old rabbet plane last night! Looking forward to seeing this progress. Thanks for the pics.
Eric

Ken Werner
04-18-2009, 10:43 AM
Next in line is cutting the dado for the knicker, alas, I used the table saw, but finished the fitting with chisels and side rabbet planes.


http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_7knicker.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=7knicker.jpg)

Also shown is the stud placed to hold the brass nut to hold the knicker. I aimed for a flush fit, with the option of shimming it out with paper if needed.
http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_8knickerandknob.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=8knickerandknob.jpg)
The iron came skewed to match the original sole. Holding it in place, first I marked out the new edge, then ground to it.

http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_9markingiron.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=9markingiron.jpg)
Meanwhile, I made the fillister. It is 1/2" thick, and matches the 9 degree angle. I would've liked to face it with rosewood, but my pieces came up short. Hard maple should do nicely though.

http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_10fillister.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=10fillister.jpg)
It will have some slots cut in it shortly - either with a router table or perhaps neander with 2 holes and a scroll saw.

It will be held in place with these:


http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_bolts.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=bolts.jpg)

More later.

John Keeton
04-18-2009, 1:04 PM
Was that WTB John Keeton or the other John Keeton?:confused::DDoug, I have a split personality:D One day it is WTB, next day WTS - terrible illness! But, I am getting help from all my friends here at SMC:rolleyes:

Derek Cohen
04-18-2009, 1:17 PM
Hi Ken

Great job! Looking forward to the rest.

Regards from Perth

Derek

David Keller NC
04-19-2009, 9:12 AM
"I know it is heresy to so treat a nice old tool. That is a given. Hopefully the end result will justify my actions."

I don't think I'd sweat this - rabbet planes from the 19th century are common as dirt, and the vast majority of them are sufficiently twisted that they're unusable. Personally, I'd rather give it a new life as a useful tool than see it end up as decoration on the wall of a Cracker Barrel. ;)

Ken Werner
04-19-2009, 4:55 PM
Next, I made the depth gauge, and then drilled a hole to receive the threaded insert to hold it. Figuring out the depth gauge made me realize why most knickers are held in place with a flat device. Derek used a screw in a slot in his knicker. So I had to accomodate that brass nut. You can see the results below. I also decided to put in a small wooden stud to help keep the depth gauge bottom parallel to the plane's sole.


http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_12knickerwithnut.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=12knickerwithnut.jpg)
http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_13depthgauge.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=13depthgauge.jpg)

Next, an image of the fillister, the groove is cut to make[/URL] room for the plane iron.

http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_14fillister.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=13depthgauge.jpg)
And the first trial run:

http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/th_15trialrun.jpg
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=14fillister.jpg)

I could not have been happier with the results.
More to come later.

[URL="http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=12knickerwithnut.jpg"] (http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=15trialrun.jpg)

Dominic Greco
04-19-2009, 7:05 PM
Personally, I'd rather give it a new life as a useful tool than see it end up as decoration on the wall of a Cracker Barrel. ;)


:D:D:D

LOL!

Too true!

David Keller NC
04-19-2009, 7:33 PM
Ken - I've a question - why'd you attach the large shelf on the right side of the plane (and that the fillister fence is screwed into)? I assume one obvious answer would be to increase the width of the dovetail that the plane could cut, but given the slope angle, I'd think that you'd have to have a 3" thick piece to use all of the adjustment.

Ken Werner
04-19-2009, 7:41 PM
David, it does afford more leeway. Derek's plans showed a similar piece, and I was following what those who went before me did. Overall, I think it affords greater stability, and if there was a mistake or problem, it is to the auxiliary piece, and not the plane.

Steve knight
04-19-2009, 7:46 PM
good remodel. the only problem is the skew is backwards. for the angled cut you want the skew opposite of what is normal the skew pushes the plane away from the cut. this makes the plane cut cleanly without chip out. I tired making my planes what would be considered the right way but it is hard to get a clean cut. but if you take light final passes with a sharp iron is is ok.

Ken Werner
04-19-2009, 8:27 PM
Thanks for your comments Steve. I'll have to see how it works. So far on the test cuts, it did fine.

Ken

Steve knight
04-19-2009, 9:43 PM
it's not a big thing but the edges of the dovetails tend to chip out. not sure why it happens but I guess it is the combo of the skew and the angle of the cut. pretty much all the dovetail planes are skewed backwards.

Bill Houghton
04-19-2009, 11:42 PM
I picked up a skew rabbet years ago, but never really used it, partly because it had a poor iron, chopped from a No. 5 Bailey plane. Derek's post quite a while back about his use of one for a dovetail plane was inspiring/comforting (that is, I didn't waste $10 after all). Your tutorial complements his, and reassures me that, when I have the time and get to this project (somewhere around project No. 127 on my shop list), it won't be a difficult job.

Don Orr
04-20-2009, 4:32 PM
Now that's my kind of recycling ! Great job Ken.

Ken Werner
04-20-2009, 5:20 PM
After making some test cuts, I disassembled the plane, rounded over corners, and rubbed on some BLO. I am very happy with the results. This is a great project for anyone who would like to have a dovetail plane. Thanks go to Derek Cohen, who provided inspiration and instructions on his site.



(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=16planeandDT.jpg)http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/16planeandDT.jpg?t=1240264786



http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/17imprints.jpg?t=1240264811
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=17imprints.jpg)


(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=18Lside.jpg)http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/18Lside.jpg?t=1240264833


http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/19lastshot.jpg?t=1240264662
(http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/kenwerner/?action=view&current=19lastshot.jpg)
All the best,
Ken

Eric Hartunian
04-20-2009, 5:55 PM
Looks great. So is there a plane that cuts the female part of the joint? I know there is a stanley (444, I think?), but what about a wooden plane? I noticed some period pieces have the top attached with a long sliding dt on the top of the sides, and then a female dt cut into the underside of the top. Is a backsaw and chisel the only option here?

Ken Werner
04-20-2009, 10:06 PM
So is there a plane that cuts the female part of the joint?

Eric, I think there is a saw like this picture shows, but I know nothing more of it.
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Shores/8907/tools/dovtprsaw.jpg

John Keeton
04-21-2009, 6:02 AM
And to think, I had a small part in this creation!! Ken, you did wonders with that old plane. Glad it worked out for you. I would have never seen that possibility living inside that chunk of wood.

David Keller NC
04-21-2009, 9:40 AM
Ken - Now I understand Steve's comment - in a sense, your plane is "left handed" (which might be perfectly appropriate if you are left handed). Almost exclusively, all wooden joinery and molding planes are made to work with the workpiece to the user's right, with the plane running on the front side of the bench from right to left, and the shavings spilling out onto the floor. This convention also sets the direction of skew in skew-iron planes - they're generally made with the right front corner of the iron leading so that the blade pulls the plane against the workpiece.

There are some exceptions to this convention - generally those exceptions are joinery/molding planes made in pairs, such as side-rabbet, snipe's bills, and side snipes planes. There is also an earlier type of sash fillister plane where the skew is "opposite", because the fillister fences off of the left side of the workpiece, and the blade pulls the plane against an inside rabbet and tight against the workpiece of fillister fence.

Ken Werner
04-21-2009, 2:07 PM
David, the exit for the shavings on this plane is clearly to the left. The support piece for the fillister could only go on the right. Given this plane, the configuration as is, is correct.

If you look at Derek Cohen's plane, as well as Brian Buckner's, they share the same configuration.

I'm not looking for an argument, but I think it would be fair to say that there may be more than one right way to do this.

Bottom line, does the plane do its task well?

David Keller NC
04-21-2009, 3:35 PM
"David, the exit for the shavings on this plane is clearly to the left. The support piece for the fillister could only go on the right. Given this plane, the configuration as is, is correct."

Hmm - Well, I'm not sure why fillisiter has to go on the right with the shavings exit on that side as well - as you pointed out, there is no "correct" (there's more than one way to accomplish the same job). My point was that the reason for having the skew such that the forward part of the blade is against the work (rather than on the outside of the cut) serves a purpose - it prevents the cutting action of the plane from pushing it away from the work.

Derek Cohen
04-21-2009, 8:38 PM
Hi Ken

That is one beautiful plane! Makes mine look like its poor relation :(

David, Steve and I discussed blade direction when I was building mine. I have noted the criteria in my article. I am not sure if he is now getting it right or reversing things (we all get confused!).

Two things stand, whatever. The first is that the amount of skew is very small compared with a plane like a #140 block. When you cut the sole off a skewed rebate plane at an angle, it also reduced the skew. This may reduce the action of a skew cut. The second is that the plane works as desired. I have not experienced it wanting to pull away from the side. This may also be doue to the fence holding it to line.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Steve knight
04-22-2009, 1:28 AM
I goofed and I see you did skew it right. though it may be a bit harder to handle right handed.
the front of the iron needs to be on the outside of the plane where normally the skew is on the inside the side against the wood.

Derek Cohen
04-22-2009, 1:47 AM
Hi Steve

Good to hear/see you on the forums again - it's been too long!

It is interesting what you say about the skew and planing. A couple of years ago I posted pictures of planing a tenon face with a Stanley #140. This was in reaction to the confusion about which way the skew should go for a right hander.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Joints/Picture6.jpg

At can be seen here, the skew points towards the shoulder and the workpiece on on your right side.

Although this is correct, and although I am right-handed, I have always felt more comfortable working from the right side of a piece. For example, using a face vise attached gto the right front corner of a bench. (I don't have one now, but I did a few years ago).

Ken's dovetail plane is copy of my dovetail plane, which is a copy of Brian's ..... They are all for lefties! Still, there is no difficulty using them right handed ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Evolving%20a%20Dovetail%20Plane_html_m25f1a6b4.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

Steve knight
04-22-2009, 1:54 AM
I don't post much on groups anymore. after 20 years I ran out of stuff to say (G) plus people beat me too it anymore.
my problem now is I can't cut a skewed plane on my cnc router. I sell more panel raisers then anything else and I still make them the old fashioned way.

Steve knight
04-22-2009, 1:56 AM
BTY I made my first dovetail plane using this method though I did it backwards as I did not know any better. I think there are only the Japanese sliding dovetail planes and mine that will cut both the male and female dovetails.