surface finish with card scraper vs smoother plane

[David Gendron]

Good day Creekers,

I don't know if it's me but when ever I use a card scraper on a piece of wood, I don't get the same finish that I get with my smoothing plane. It look like a dull surface with the card scraper and a nice glossy one with the smoother. I think it might be that the card scraper is not sharp anough?!?!?
Do you have any Idea??

[Steve knight]

the plane should be far sharper then the scraper. the plane is cutting the scraper is well more scraping.
a plane will shear the fibers cleanly.

[glenn bradley]

If you are getting dust instead of nice curlies when using your card scraper, you want to look at your edge preparation and your technique. If you are getting nice curls of spoil like when you use the plane, the finish should be pretty nice depending on the figure. Scrapers do better for me than a plane on difficult grain and I can use a scraper where a plane can't get after (partial) assembly. If the plane is working better for you and clearance for the stroke is not a problem, I would just use it.

[Danny Thompson]

It is not just you.

If I recall correctly, "The Schwarz," in his card scraper tutorial at last year's Woodworking in America conference, mentioned that the surface (and stain absorption) are different between the plane, scraper, and sand-paper. That's why he recommends a light sanding with 220 as a final prep step before staining.

Maybe others know of a way to avoid this.

[Prashun Patel]

Properly prepared, both will leave a surface ready to be finished. Sounds like yr scraper's not as finely honed as yr plane iron is. If you don't properly hone either, microscratches will transfer to the surface, making yr wood look dull, and demanding a sanding with 220gt. Frankly, that's how I use my scraper, since it's more work for me to hone the edge than it is to do a final sanding. Plus, a scraper's hard to get into corners...

[Prashun Patel]

It is not just you.

If I recall correctly, "The Schwarz," in his card scraper tutorial at last year's Woodworking in America conference, mentioned that the surface (and stain absorption) are different between the plane, scraper, and sand-paper. That's why he recommends a light sanding with 220 as a final prep step before staining.

Maybe others know of a way to avoid this.

I read an article in FWW where they tested a planed, sanded, and scraped surface all the way through topcoat. While all 3 pieces look different prior to finishing, the anticlimatic result was that it didn't matter one bit to the final finish. The takeaway for me is: all techniques are fine if you do them properly, so choose what you like.

[Gary Herrmann]

I read that article too. Maybe it's just subjective, but a planed surface looks and feels smoother to me than a sanded surface.

[Prashun Patel]

Until you get a topcoat on it...

[Stephen Shepherd]

Try sharpening your card scraper like musical instrument makers sharpen their scrapers. Which is like a cabinet scraper blade and is ground at 45 degrees then only one much finer edge can be turned.

Stephen

[David Gendron]

Thank you all It did help to have some of your comments in!
David

[george wilson]

You'll never get as smooth a finish out of a scraper.That "musical instrument" scraper edge is generally used on those very thin violin scrapers that are about .015" thick,too thin to put the usual double edged finish on. I do not think it would make a difference in how smooth the scraper cuts. I've used those thin scrapers for many years,because you can bend them easily with the thumbs to go around the edge of violin tops and backs where they are concave.Years ago I saw a catalog of expensive violins that boasted that the scraped finish was left under the varnish. They looked horrible-millions of scratches going everywhere,from the stain. The old violins do not look like that at all,unless the maker was drunk!!

[David Gendron]

Goerge, is it better to use a stiff scraper or a soft one, or again it's a matter of preferences? And how long should you expect the edge to last o hard wood?
Thank you!

[Danny Thompson]

I read an article in FWW where they tested a planed, sanded, and scraped surface all the way through topcoat. While all 3 pieces look different prior to finishing, the anticlimatic result was that it didn't matter one bit to the final finish. The takeaway for me is: all techniques are fine if you do them properly, so choose what you like.

Shawn,

Good point. I had read the same article, so when I heard Chris's comments, I pulled it back out. Turns out the FWW article tested 3 clear finishes--oil, oil/varnish mixture, and shellac. They didn't test stains. In fact, the article mentions a difference in a scraped surface.


"However, these results may not apply across all circumstances.
Highly figured grain may be tamed only with
a scraper, while some softer woods become fuzzy when
scraped. I also did not test how the samples would react to
stains and dyes." -- Sand, Scrape, or Plane? In search of the best way
to prepare wood for finishing, by Ari Tuckman, Fine Woodworking #180

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id=24966 (http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id=24966)

So, the way I reconcile these two inputs is that, as you pointed out, prep method shouldn't make a difference for clear finishes, but can for stained.

[Larry Rose]

I find that it all depends on the piece of wood you are working with. Sometimes a scraper will give a better surface and sometimes it a plane.