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View Full Version : Opinions on Spear & Jackson Mortise Chisels?



Ryan Stagg
04-24-2009, 11:26 AM
I'm trying to replace my modern-age Sorby chisels (bought before I knew better) with better new or vintage steel.

So I'm down to replacing my mortise chisels, and I just acquired a small set of old Spear & Jackson chisels. I find lots of info here on S&J saws, but not chisels. Good steel?

As an aside - while googling, I found S&J's modern website, and I'm pretty sure I found the next revolution in hand toolery! :p

http://www.spear-and-jackson.com/spear-amp-jackson-laser-saw-light-years-ahead

Richard Dooling
04-24-2009, 11:50 AM
If they would just make those lasers they’re putting on everything more powerful you wouldn’t need the saw at all!

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Joel Moskowitz
04-24-2009, 12:06 PM
the key word here is "old". THey are most likely either pretty good or very good.

David Gendron
04-24-2009, 12:20 PM
I have the Ray Ilse New pig stickers from Tools for Working Wood and I love them. Old style but new!

george wilson
04-24-2009, 6:50 PM
I'd try to get old ones.The trend now is to make chisels soft,so people won't make lawsuits if they get a chisel splinter in their eye!!! Can you believe it?

harry strasil
04-24-2009, 7:13 PM
I'll go with George on this one, Most of the time Old is better, except what I make for myself is getting close to what the old timers did. Well, after a little thought I am old too. LOL

There are threads on several WWing sites about Old vs the New Stuff. Most just automatically replace the Old blades with the newer high dollar blades, but in my estimation as a user of Old Tools, you can't beat em.

Joel Moskowitz
04-24-2009, 7:14 PM
George,
None of the current premium chisel makers make anything that I would call "soft". Maybe 20 years ago but not now.

Mat Ashton
04-24-2009, 7:17 PM
I have the Ray Ilse New pig stickers from Tools for Working Wood and I love them. Old style but new!


Who do I have to sleep with to get a set of them. Tools for working wood never have the right ones in stock. Anyone know of another source?

george wilson
04-24-2009, 7:29 PM
Joel,have you tried Sorby chisels? I actually had to harden some Sorby lathe chisels we had down at my job. My information on toolmakers going to softer chisels is pretty recent. I can't remember where I read it.My 1965 Marples are 59-60 RC. I had the 1" one suddenly snap off about 3/4" of the end when I wasn't prying,or anything. I just ground it square,and re beveled it. I prize those old chisels.

Joel Moskowitz
04-24-2009, 8:18 PM
Who do I have to sleep with to get a set of them. Tools for working wood never have the right ones in stock. Anyone know of another source?

Just place the order. We queue them up and fill them when we get the chisels. Ray can't keep up with demand - so it's best to get in line.

Joel Moskowitz
04-24-2009, 8:20 PM
Joel,have you tried Sorby chisels? I actually had to harden some Sorby lathe chisels we had down at my job. My information on toolmakers going to softer chisels is pretty recent. I can't remember where I read it.My 1965 Marples are 59-60 RC. I had the 1" one suddenly snap off about 3/4" of the end when I wasn't prying,or anything. I just ground it square,and re beveled it. I prize those old chisels.

Have you tried Ashley Iles? Two Cherries? I heard Taylor is OK too. And of coarse LN. Sorby has been yelled at for (lack of of) hardness for years. And they have been superceeded in popularity by the aforementioned brands.

george wilson
04-24-2009, 8:54 PM
I'd feel safer buying old s&j's than new ones.Strictly my opinion.We had some 2 Cherries at work,which were o.k.,except for being polished to death,and rounded over on their edges from the polishing. I wasn't thinking of American tools,like LN.

Joel Moskowitz
04-24-2009, 9:10 PM
George,
read the current review in Pop wood of the Ashley Iles bench chisels.
In the case of the O.P. the older Mortise chisels will be prefectly serviceable and a lot less expensive than the RI chisels but mortise chisels suffered a real decline in the 1880s or so when they stopped shaping the handles to the bolster and started using stock handles.

I had a fair hand in the design of the RI mortise chisel and the project started in my living room with Ray and Barry Iles and myself (me being mostly very quiet) discussing how to make then. I prefer them to my original set (some by Law) because 1- the handles are not screwed up by age and wear, 2 - I really think D2 is a great metal for mortise chisels (not everyone agrees). by the same token I don't personally have a set of RI mortise chisels - my current set will last my lifetime and even though I think the RI are better the old tools still work fine.


I should also mention that for sheer quality of steel, ease of sharpening and edge retention some of the better Japanese makers are doing incredible work.

george wilson
04-24-2009, 9:22 PM
I have over 350 old and new chisels,and if I wanted more,I'd make them. I'm not going to buy chisels just to see if they are any good at this stage. Probably I'd make them out of A2,possibly D2. D2 can be too brittle for some applications,but we made our plane mouth chisels out of D2,driven by a shaping attachment on the milling machine,and had no failures due to the relative mass of the tools,and the less acute bevels. They were driven pretty hard by the machine,too.

Personally,I just prefer Western style tools because I grew up with them. I know the Japanese chisels win the comparison contests. I just don't care for them. Again,just my opinion,not necessarily based on anything except what appeals to me. If I don't like the way a tool looks,I usually won't use it. Terrible as it sounds,I've somehow gotten my work done. I also tend to do everything the hard way.

You will just have to find someone who cares to debate,then. I have strep throat,and am very worn down.

David Gendron
04-24-2009, 11:00 PM
As for the review on the A.I. chisels, I'm kind of skeptical, I bought a set of the dovetail chisels last year and the back was so bad and I had to put a lot of work to flaten them, that I lost trust in that maker... I don't know about all these reviews, people seem too swear by LN products no mather what... But I can tell you that my new Gramercy dovetail saw is hand down way better than the two LN one I have! And I have an Adria saw(carcass xc) that is also better than the LN one I got after thinking that if every body like them, it must be better... Maybe it's a mather of preference or maybe it's MARKETING!
i would like to hear if others had the same experience with that!
David

george wilson
04-24-2009, 11:20 PM
David,now you will have to argue with Joel. :)

David Keller NC
04-25-2009, 10:02 AM
"I prefer them to my original set (some by Law) because 1- the handles are not screwed up by age and wear, 2 - I really think D2 is a great metal for mortise chisels (not everyone agrees). by the same token I don't personally have a set of RI mortise chisels - my current set will last my lifetime and even though I think the RI are better the old tools still work fine."

+1 for these mortise chisels. I'm both a collector and user of antiques, and I purchased the L-N set of chisels before the R-I versions were available, so I've had a chance to compare all three.

Generally speaking, the antiques have quite good steel, good balance, and well-made handles (I'm talking the traditional oval English design here from the mid 1800's - mostly Newbould, James Cam, Butcher, etc...). However, you have to pick and choose carefully - a lot of these antiques were used for very heavy carpentry work and the handles can be split or replaced (and don't fit all that well).

The L-Ns were nice tools, but they didn't work for me because of the symmetric handles and retangular shape.

The Ray Ilse chisels I got from Joel were a revelation. Other than one chisel that had a manufacturing defect (which Joel promptly replaced - thanks Joel), they are really superior tools. The D2 holds an edge much, much longer than my antique cast steel examples, and the handles will automatically register in your palm to line up the chisel with the mortise. I thought so much of them that I sold my L-N chisels.

Ryan Stagg
04-26-2009, 6:55 PM
Thanks, all. I'll grind and hone the S&J's and try banging a few holes. I just didn't want to waste the time if they were junk - I know 'old' is a pretty good endorsement, but I know there are some exceptions, too. Considering the lack of data on S&J, I wanted to get some sage advice.

The Sorby mortise chisels actually aren't *that* bad when compared to their bevel chisels, it seems. Maybe it's just the fatter bevel angle hiding the bad steel. The bench chisels are practically junk. Poor decision from 10 years ago, when I bought them at Woodcraft before knowing any better (they were the most expensive - they must be great!) - I would have been much better off buying blue chips at 1/4 the price.

I'm sure the LN's are very nice, but it seems like once people know you like old tools, you fall into them. I have more 100 year-old chisels than I have time to hone, just from three or four acquaintances that had dusty old boxes of edge tools, from some ancestor, they didn't know what to do with.