PDA

View Full Version : Saw Till Pics or Plans?



Brian Kent
04-27-2009, 2:55 PM
My Uncle Vern's treasure chest of tools arrived. He passed away about 10 months ago and now I get to appreciate him through his tools.

About all I can do to rehab them is to scrub and oil the handles! He has kept them in excellent condition. He inherited many of them from his dad and I think a couple are from his grand-father.

For now they are safely in their packing box but it is time to build a saw till to protect them. I have seen a couple of pictures of Saw Tills and would appreciate your experienced advise / pictures / plans.

Brian

Sean Hughto
04-27-2009, 3:06 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2185/2233245819_e9e8773041_o.jpg

David Gendron
04-27-2009, 3:08 PM
No plans for saw till... But look like you are geting a nice collection!
I envy you !
David

Brian Kent
04-27-2009, 3:17 PM
Hey David, has Spring come to Whitehorse yet or do you bloom in May?

Brian

Brian Kent
04-27-2009, 3:19 PM
Sean, I like the places for the sharpening files. Are those saw slots about 1-1/2" apart?

Sean Hughto
04-27-2009, 3:28 PM
I don't remember the exact distance and the till is at home (I'm not). It is very easy to figure out good spacing if you have two saws though -- which I think you do ;-)

Sean Hughto
04-27-2009, 3:29 PM
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=1181

David Gendron
04-27-2009, 3:43 PM
Spring is here this week

David Gendron
04-27-2009, 3:46 PM
Spring is here this week;) But for how long we don't know...they are calling for 18degees celcius for wenesday and maybe higher for the end of the week:eek:that is realy hot for this time of the year... blooming would definitly happen in late may!!
David

Joe Cunningham
04-27-2009, 3:54 PM
Great looking saw-till Sean. And thanks for the link to the older SMC thread.

And yeah! A new project idea for the shop... :D Glad it's in the basement, because it was hot this past weekend (90s F).

Ah the joys of working in a basement hand-tool shop--not too cold in the winter and not too hot in the summer.

Sean Hughto
04-27-2009, 4:54 PM
You're kind to praise my till. It was one of my first hand tool projects about 12 years back (I found the basic plan online somewhere, though I changed things to suit myself). I was kind of clueless about anything but glue and screws for joinery back then. This may have been one my first woodwroking projects to have a drawer (and it shows). Loved me some dowels at the time, apparently, too!

Than again, it's still together and it does its job.

Brian Kent
04-27-2009, 5:15 PM
Spring is here this week;) But for how long we don't know...they are calling for 18degees celcius for wenesday and maybe higher for the end of the week:eek:that is realy hot for this time of the year... blooming would definitly happen in late may!!
David

Let's see. 9/5*18+32=64.4° Fahrenheit. That is pretty warm! When I lived for a year in Russia, there was not a spot of green on April 30 and every plant was in full bloom by May 7. Autumn had run its course by the end of September. (Summer was pretty much over by mid-August).

Brian Kent
04-27-2009, 5:24 PM
In spite of the attractiveness of building this only with hand tools, I'll probably chicken out and use the band saw if I have a big gentle curve on the sides. I have a frame saw but I'm not so good at it yet. I know, I know, this would give me lots of practice.

David Gendron
04-27-2009, 7:52 PM
If you don't use it how can you get good at it???
David

Derek Cohen
04-28-2009, 2:18 AM
When I finally got around to building a saw till at the beginning of this year (part of my complete workshop rebuild), two of the outstanding tills I looked at were Dave's and Sean's.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Workbench%20and%20Workshop/Sawtillside1.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Workbench%20and%20Workshop/Sawtillfront1.jpg

This holds a couple of rip and panel saws, a halfback, two mitrebox saws, 12" and 14" tenon saws, and a bunch of Japanese saws, along with a few dovetail saws.

Of course I have added a couple of saws since then .. there is never going to be a suitable size till ... a Veritas dovetail saw (more than holds its own with the IT and LN I already had), and today an Andrew Lunn carcase saw arrived in the mail (no pics yet).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Dave Anderson NH
04-28-2009, 12:29 PM
You ain't just kidding Derek. Looking back to that post from 2003, I greatly regret reducing the size of the sawtill from 36" to 30". My Dad did give up all but 1 of the family saws about a year after the till was completed. I also acquired a few more in various ways. The long and short of it is that the till is pretty much full. Maybe I can post a picture tonight.

Brian Kent
04-29-2009, 12:17 PM
I am very grateful to Kenneth Martin, both for downloading the plans while the were available and for sending them to me to use.

Is it alright with the Creek for me to post these plans here, giving full credit to the Old Tools forum that originally posted them?

Dave Anderson NH
04-29-2009, 12:57 PM
Go right ahead and post the plans Brian. Thanks, I wasn't able to find them on line and I'm at work now so I don't know if I saved a copy of the ones I drew in 2003.

Brian Kent
04-29-2009, 1:17 PM
Galoots Sawtill Project

This vertical sawtill project was commissioned as "group Project #2"; by
the members of the OldTools list. It is easy to build with a small set
of tools, and provides good practice in the basics of hand joinery.
Special thanks should be given to Jim Thoreson, for the design work.

Stock Selection:
This project uses 3/4" and 1/4" stock. Optimally, the species chosen
should be hard enough to hold nice dovetails. For this reason, a
hardwood such as Oak, Maple, Cherry, or Walnut is best.

If you go to buy dimensioned stock, here are a few pointers. When buying
wood for a project, don't always have a certain wood in mind. Look over
what is in stock and select the best group of boards available.
Run, don't walk from boards that have twist, cup, or other problems. One
can also pay the 6.50 BF for S4S(Boards that are surfaced on all four
sides) at the Lowe's/Home Depots of the world. These still need to be
checked carefully to make sure that you have flat boards.
While you are there pick up some 1/4" stock for the back panels.


Materials List:

ITEM QUANTITY T L W

Sides (1 board) 3/4" x 52" x 12"
Back, top & bottom (2) 3/4" x 36" x 7 3/4"
Large saw kerf board (2) 3/4" x 35" x 2"
Large saw handle rest (1) 3/4" x 36" x 2"
Small saw kerf board (2) 3/4" x 10" x 2"
Small saw handle rest (1) 3/4" x 10" x 2"
Small saw handle base (1) 3/4" x 10" x 5"
Drawer top & bottom (2) 3/4" x 36" x 12"
Drawer dividers (2) 3/4" x 12" x 5 3/4"
Back panels (3) 1/4" x 26-1/2" x 11"
Back panel dividers (2) 3/4" x 27-1/2" x 2"

------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a picture of what the completed sawtill should look like. It
will hold 16-20 full size handsaws, 7 tenon and 7 dovetail saws.
A real nice feature is the three drawers at the bottom. One can store
lots of saw related items, right there for quick retrieval.
http://www.shavings.net/images/ST-Iso.gif

------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------

To begin the project, we will cut out the sides. Pull out the 3/4" x 52"
x 12" board and prepare to layout some lines.
This one board will produce both side pieces of the sawtill. The hardest
part of this is to get the "blend" area such that there is a mirror image.
This can be avoided by making a straight line instead of a blend effect.
Different people may like different things. If one chooses to try the
blend, and it doesn't quite work out, it can still be fixed.
Once the sides are cut out, clamp the two sides together and work on
them until they are exactly alike.
http://www.shavings.net/images/ST-Side.gif

The joinery done on the sides should be fairly straight forward by
looking at the pictures.
I should mention that the back panels are received into the sides by
means of a rebate(groove).

------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.shavings.net/images/ST-Assy.gif

From here, its wide open to how you want to proceed. I would tend to
work on all the horizontal pieces and dry fit them.
Then you can double check the lengths needed for the vertical pieces,
and cut them to size. Then cut the rebates, dados, etc.. needed to
receive the verticals.
Dry fit the piece, and once you are satisfied, glue it up.

If wanted, you can make a nice set of drawers to go in the bottom.

Another option can be to attach hooks to the bottom of the sawtill to
hang items from.

Brian Kent
04-29-2009, 1:23 PM
Here are the pictures:

Derek Cohen
04-29-2009, 1:28 PM
Brian

Note that the use of dovetails at the top of this cabinet is a weak point. They lie on the long grain and are likely to break off. The design needs to be altered.

Regards from Perth

Derek

glenn bradley
04-29-2009, 1:39 PM
I really like the open tenons and multi-piece back on the Woodsmith one.

Brian Kent
04-29-2009, 1:40 PM
I am picturing a simple rabbett. Any ideas that are more fun?

Brian Kent
04-29-2009, 1:44 PM
Very nice, Glenn.

Another reason I like that is that my stock on hand is quarter sawn white oak (from Reel Lumber's short and cheap pile) and I have decided several times that it is too "crispy" for dovetails. I can cut it, then chunks break off at the most inconvenient times.

David Keller NC
04-29-2009, 1:46 PM
"Note that the use of dovetails at the top of this cabinet is a weak point. They lie on the long grain and are likely to break off. The design needs to be altered."

Indeed. Hanging this cabinet by that top back board filled with several thousand dollars worth of saws (and maybe an irreplaceable family heirloom) might be inviting disaster. Supporting it from underneath with shelf brackets would be one solution.

As far as a replacement joint, even tenons in the back board and mortises in the sides would still be quite weak because of the board's location at the edge of the sides. This is a suggestion that doesn't satisfy the wood geek's need for highly refined joints (count me in in that group), but I'd think one of the best solutions from a strength perspective would be to rabbet the ends of the back board and cut a notch to fit in the side boards, and attach it with glue and square-cut nails put in from the back. Such a joint would be incredibly strong, and I wouldn't hesitate to hang it from the back board in that circumstance.

Brian Kent
04-29-2009, 1:54 PM
Wait a minute - Derek - isn't it almost 2AM in Perth?

You didn't have to wake up in the middle of the night just to help me out. What a nice guy!:D

Larry Browning
04-29-2009, 2:25 PM
A saw "till" huh! When did a storage cabinet turn into a till?
I have heard of working till the sun goes down, going out to till the south forty, and taking money from the till. But never a saw till.
Anybody know where that term came from?

BTW: Can I make a till for my table saw blades? Or is that just a cabinet?:)

Brian Kent
04-29-2009, 2:57 PM
till (til)
noun
a drawer or tray for keeping money
ready cash
Etymology: earlier tille < Middle English tillen, to draw, reach < Old English

So yes, you could stick your table saw blades in a specially made drawer, and call it a Saw Blade Till, but be very careful if you have your hand in the till!

Also, Sawtill is what the people in Nawlins call that city in Washington.

Derek Cohen
04-29-2009, 8:08 PM
Wait a minute - Derek - isn't it almost 2AM in Perth?

You didn't have to wake up in the middle of the night just to help me out. What a nice guy!:D

Hi Brian

The bane of my life is report writing. About 2-3 hours of it almost every day, and unfortunately there is only time for this in the evenings. Trade?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Brian Kent
04-30-2009, 6:41 PM
Now I've managed to split a thread again. I've been doing a lot of that recently.

What started out as a quick question about chopping mortises across grain ended up linking to this thread. So here is the one about my question: how to chop mortises for this project:

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1122085&posted=1#post1122085

Brian Kent
05-02-2009, 6:42 PM
I am about to make the back panel of the saw till. Are your panels glued into the dadoes in the back or are they somehow floating for wood movement?

Later note - I decided on frame and panel just to be safe, and for practice since I've never made them before.

Bill Houghton
05-02-2009, 6:49 PM
which is a short-term solution that I've only been living with for about seven-eight years now.

I can testify that tools that come down to you from the family are especially nice - you get that extra "hit" of tradition as you work - but those are also beautiful and well-maintained tools in their own right.

I note a jeweler's saw there in the box - looks like a coping saw, but the frame is adjustable in length. You can get an assortment of jeweler's saw blades from Lee Valley.

Brian Kent
05-02-2009, 7:17 PM
Bill, it looks like you have them sorted chronologically by depth. The one you used last is always at the end of the nail.

I did not know that was a jeweler's saw. I'll check out the blades.

Brian Kent
05-05-2009, 1:20 AM
I finished the casework for the Saw Till. :D

Before I add the second half-row saw "notches", the additional platform, pegs, etc., I need to find out how I want to arrange the miscellaneous saws.

A couple of Japanese saws, fret saws, hack saw, 2 keyhole saws, 2 back saws, and a frame saw.

There are spaces for more in the future, but what I am planning is one more wide-toothed rip saw and 2-3 more back saws.

So I'll try different arrangements while I make the drawers.

The case is quarter-sawn white oak with red oak panels - because that is what I had on hand.

David Keller NC
05-05-2009, 9:52 AM
BTW, Bill - Open wire nuts on a 120V circuit is a major no-no in residential code. I'm not saying you're going to burn your shop down with that arrangement, but you sure don't want a city inspector to ever see that - they'll have a conniption fit.

If you care to make it code-compliant, you can either 1) add a grounded cord and plug to the light and do away with the wire nut connection, or 2) Enclose the wire nut connection in an electrical box (either metal or the fire-resistant plastic ones sold in the big box stores). The wire nuts, by the way, need to have electrician's tape wrapped around the wire nut's base and the romex for code purposes, even though they're inside an electrical junction box.

Bill Houghton
05-05-2009, 12:30 PM
BTW, Bill - Open wire nuts on a 120V circuit is a major no-no in residential code. I'm not saying you're going to burn your shop down with that arrangement, but you sure don't want a city inspector to ever see that - they'll have a conniption fit.

If you care to make it code-compliant, you can either 1) add a grounded cord and plug to the light and do away with the wire nut connection, or 2) Enclose the wire nut connection in an electrical box (either metal or the fire-resistant plastic ones sold in the big box stores). The wire nuts, by the way, need to have electrician's tape wrapped around the wire nut's base and the romex for code purposes, even though they're inside an electrical junction box.

That's the last remaining old (electrical) work on our property (if you don't count the barn - we removed the overhead lines going to the barn [no longer in use as a barn, just a storage place] because the wiring was so frightening there), and what you see there is typical. One of this summer's projects is rewiring the shop, using BX or whatever the current term for metal shielded cable is. I've already got a separate, grounded subpanel for the building, which is the original tankhouse [watertower in some parts of the country, also no longer in its original use], with power run through buried conduit, so we'll be able to remove the overhead wires from the house to the tankhouse, where the shop is.

David Keller NC
05-05-2009, 1:58 PM
Bill - As a former electrician, I would strongly advise that you not relocate wire for a new application, if I understand you correctly. Wring and insulation do break down with age, but there's usually no reason to rip it out of an existing installation and install new unless new appliances exceed the safe limits of amperage.

However, when wire is subjected to shock forces and bending (i.e., by removing it from one install to another), then it often develops cracks in the insulation, making it quite dangerous.

Outdoor romex is cheap. Do yourself a favor and use new wire.

Dan Carroll
05-06-2009, 12:48 PM
I am in the process of making till myself and I was thinking of putting doors on it to keep as much dust out as possible. Is my thinking flawed or should I go forward with the doors?

Brian Kent
05-06-2009, 12:58 PM
There's nothing wrong with having a saw till door. I didn't include one because I don't know what I am doing, so I'm starting with other common plans and assuming I'll learn from it.

The only drawbacks I can imagine are 3 second time lost opening a door and you can't see the pretty saw display.:rolleyes:

When I build a tool cabinet, it will have two doors which will be open when I work to make tools accessible.

This one has a glass door (not mine):
http://www.shoptours.org/member3/kf-saw-till-open.jpg

Brian

Joe Close
05-19-2009, 4:08 PM
Question. How are you guys cutting the slots for the saw blades? I would assume it is larger than just the saw kurf itself. But it does not appear to be much larger.