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View Full Version : Leg Vise vs Front Vise



Jeff Skory
04-29-2009, 10:36 PM
Like a lot of others I am planning on building my first workbench. And like a lot of others I have spent way too much time researching it to death. But I am finally getting ready to take the plunge. I have one questions left:

How many of you use a leg vise rather than a front vise? And if so do you like it better and why. And for those of you who have used it but don't like it - why?

David Gendron
04-30-2009, 12:37 AM
Good evening Jeff, I use a leg vise on my bench and realy like it. I also use a quick realese vise on the end vise position and don't like it that much.

So to start with the leg vise, I like it first because it's realy ease to make and semple in opperation! Second it's realy strong and can put a lot of presure to your piece! Third, i like the fact that you can hold long pieces with some kind of wide clamping suface.

So as for the quick realese vise, nothing is good about them! Or the one I have anyway!

On my next bench, I will still have a leg vise and would consider a twin screw vise from veritas at the end vise position or a wagon vise like the one sold by Bench Craft.

an other thing I would do, is make the leg vise with a wooden screw, so less chances of maring the wood!

I think that is it for my input!
Here some picture.

Jim Koepke
04-30-2009, 1:42 AM
Since my bench is more of a starter bench to help me decide what is wanted in a bench before building one, it only has the vices it came with.

One thought that has come to mind is to have a multi-sided bench. That is one side will be set up with a leg vice and a floating vice while the other side is set up with a more standard vice. Have also thought of having a wagon vice on one end and a vice similar to what I have now or a twin screw vice on the other end. Most likely my shop will eventually have more than one bench.

jim

Eric Brown
04-30-2009, 7:28 AM
If you get his "Workbench" book and follow his basic rules, you can't go too far wrong. That being said, the type of work you wish to do has a lot to do with your workholding choices. His angled leg vice looks like it might be better than the staight type for some tasks. For some jobs a vice is not really needed at all. Determine your use first, then get the hardware, then build the bench. Then modify to suit as you go along.

Enjoy the ride. Eric

Eric Hartunian
04-30-2009, 9:17 AM
I built a Shaker style bench, with a leg vise and tail vise. J don't care for the tail vise much, but the leg vise is great. My only regret is that mine is rather narrow at 6". I also use a wood screw for mine.
Eric

David Keller NC
04-30-2009, 10:27 AM
Jeff - I've previously had a bench with a leg vise (sold it a few years ago - the offer was too good to refuse). My current bench has a high-quality quick-release in the face vise position.

The leg vise is superior for jointing the edge of long boards. In my opinion it's not as good as a quick-release, twin-screw or shoulder vise for dovetailing larger pieces such as case sides, blanket chests, etc...

From the standpoint of simplicity of installation, my opinion is that a high-quality quick release is easiest, followed by a leg vise, which are both easier than a twin screw and (much lower down) a shoulder vise. A tail vise, whether shop made or from a manufactured hardware kit is the biggest PITA - I doubt I'll ever make another after completing the third one last fall.

What I'd say about a quick release is that it's a major mistake to save a few dollars and get one of the off-shore lever-type clones. They suck, and badly. I've had a Shop-Fox brand and an Anant. Both were uniformly poor in machining, slop, and the tendency of the lever to release (and let go of what you're clamping) at the worst possible moment. Instead, do yourself a favor and spend the extra $70 for Jorgensen eccentric-screw quick release if you go the quick release route. It's probably one of the last of the made in America ones available that's manufactured in high volumes and can be purchased at a reasonable price. Failing that, look for an antique at an MWTCA meet or from a dealer.

Jim Koepke
04-30-2009, 12:41 PM
For some jobs a vice is not really needed at all. Determine your use first, then get the hardware, then build the bench. Then modify to suit as you go along.


For some tasks, one vice or the other is taken off my bench. Usually for planing long boards. Often a stop is clamped on the end for this. If there is enough room to get to the back side of the bench, a stop is held in the tail vice.

Often a vice is very helpful, sometimes it just gets in the way. To me, being able to have a side of the bench unfettered by a vice is a plus.

jim

David Gendron
04-30-2009, 12:48 PM
For me, a lot of the time I have my bench in the midle of the place so I can use all side to adjust to the work I'm doing and as Jim K. said having a side of the banch free of vice is a good thing!

Russ Hauser
04-30-2009, 1:57 PM
I built this bench many years ago specifically to build some acoustical guitars. I made the leg vise wide to hold the bookmatched front and back pieces while they were being joined. It also was handy for some of the other operations. The other end of the bench had a double screw type end vise I constructed using two short pipe clamps. I also made the face of the vise flexible to accomodate the tapered body and rounded back of the guitar. There was also a rotating pattern maker's vise with a pivoting jaw to hold the guitar neck. The bench holds many of the jigs, fixtures and tools I had to make or buy to build the guitars.

The odd shape of the top at the visible end allowed easy clamping.

My present work bench has an Emmert vise on the front right hand end. If I were to build another workbench, I might have a leg vise on it. I really miss that vise sometimes.

Russ

Jeff Skory
04-30-2009, 7:04 PM
If you get his "Workbench" book and follow his basic rules, you can't go too far wrong. That being said, the type of work you wish to do has a lot to do with your workholding choices. His angled leg vice looks like it might be better than the staight type for some tasks. For some jobs a vice is not really needed at all. Determine your use first, then get the hardware, then build the bench. Then modify to suit as you go along.

Enjoy the ride. Eric

Eric - I just finished Schwartz's book. That is one reason I am asking people or their opinions on leg vises. They had never really entered my mind as something I would want on my bench. And I am pretty sure I am going to go with a Veritas double screw vise across the back side.

My thinking is that with the double-screw vise at the far end and two or more sets of dogholes I can clamp just about any board down flat. And the fact that the opening in the double-screw vise can be up to 24" wide means I should be able to hold most boards for cutting. (I think :confused: - I've never actually worked on a real bench with vises)

So given that - I think the other major holding job I need to think about is longer boards. And this is one of those things where a leg vise would come in handy. So maybe this is the route to go.....I'll make a decision by the weekend.

Richard Francis
05-01-2009, 6:14 AM
Scott Landis has had a rough deal in the whole Schwarz as messiah scenario.
Look at his (superior) book - fewer jokes, fewer half-baked 'solutions'.
The Tarule Roubo is my ideal - an honest bench and aeons away from the mcmansion pretensions of end vise ghetto.
Altho' I would give Jameel credit for recognizing Richard Maguire and his benches in his recent post.

Eric Brown
05-01-2009, 7:39 AM
I have about six workbench books. I like em all. The Landis book has more and different styles of benches but does not teach the core info as well as Schwarz.
Did I follow Schwartz to the letter with my bench? No.
I have telescoping legs, twinscrew tailvice, Tucker in the front position, aprons, maple/walnut top, castors, etc.
What I did follow were his basic principles. I have leveling feet so it doesn't move on the castors. The top is rock steady at all heights. I can work on all four sides and can clamp most anything. My conclusion?
I could work on any bench that fits Schwartz's rules, just that some would be easier for me than others. I can't say that for all the benches in the other books.

If interested, here is my bench.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=102856&highlight=eric+brown

Eric

Daniel Kennedy
05-01-2009, 1:38 PM
Eric - I just finished Schwartz's book. That is one reason I am asking people or their opinions on leg vises. They had never really entered my mind as something I would want on my bench. And I am pretty sure I am going to go with a Veritas double screw vise across the back side.

My thinking is that with the double-screw vise at the far end and two or more sets of dogholes I can clamp just about any board down flat. And the fact that the opening in the double-screw vise can be up to 24" wide means I should be able to hold most boards for cutting. (I think :confused: - I've never actually worked on a real bench with vises)

So given that - I think the other major holding job I need to think about is longer boards. And this is one of those things where a leg vise would come in handy. So maybe this is the route to go.....I'll make a decision by the weekend.


I put the leg vise on my bench that I recently completed. I am very happy that I did. It was not expensive, it was easy to install, it has tremendous clamping power, and it is easy to use. I can't say enough about it. I have the Veritas twin screw on the end. All through construction and before I had this complete I thougt that I would be using the twin screw for everything. It turns out that the leg vise (I actually installed two) gets used for the majority of my work. I give the leg vise my highest recommendation.

David Gendron
05-01-2009, 1:50 PM
Daniel, do you have a few pics of your finished bench? if yes, it would be cool to have a look!

Daniel Kennedy
05-01-2009, 2:04 PM
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=105734

Sorry for my lack of photography skills.

Steve Sawyer
05-01-2009, 2:36 PM
It's really tough to make a decision about a vise without the experience to know what you, your working habits and your projects require. About 30 years ago I made a classic European-style, Frank Klausz-designed bench. Over many years I learned what I did and didn't like about it, so when I started in on a new bench early last year, I was pretty sure what I would like. After using it for almost a year now, I'm happy to say that I haven't been a bit disappointed.

The face vise is a twin-screw with the screws independent - no Veritas chain-drive setup. I designed it to put the screws offset to the left which left a 7" shoulder on the right. This duplicates the utility of the shoulder vise on my old bench, and with the screws independent, I have absolute control of any racking tendencies when using that shoulder, which I find myself doing all the time. I also faced the chiop with thick tanned leather which both protects any finished stock I put into it, and provides an absolutely amazing amount of grip.

You were asking specifically about a face vise, but since others offered their opinions of end vises too, I'm going to go against the flow and say that I have a quick-release Anant 53ED end vise fitted with a thick chop, also faced with leather, and I absolutely love it. One of the best $130 or so I've ever invested.

See the pics below:

http://www.semiww.org/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php/members/stevesawyer/new_bench1.jpg?w=800&h=600&cache=cache
http://www.semiww.org/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php/members/stevesawyer/new_bench2.jpg?w=600&h=800&cache=cache


http://www.semiww.org/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php/members/stevesawyer/new_bench4.jpg?w=600&h=800&cache=cache

John Schreiber
05-01-2009, 2:40 PM
I use a face vice and I'm happy. The chop is 22" across and I do need to put something in the other side to prevent wracking when I'm clamping across the 10" of open space. (I'm working on a better solution though.) The main reason I chose a face vise is that all the years I was using the dinky little piece of junk I had, I was lusting after a big chunk of iron and wood to replace it.

Also, I didn't go with a leg vise because I didn't want to bend down to turn the vise screw and bend even further down to fiddle with the pivot pin near the floor. A good thing about them is that the price is low compared to other options. If you don't want to spring for a wood screw, you could put in some dowels over the metal screw to prevent contact.

I access my bench from all four sides and it was built so that a leg vise could be retrofit in place of or on the opposite side of the bench. I haven't felt the need to do so though.

Floyd Mah
05-01-2009, 5:42 PM
Consider making a bench with a slanted leg, as in one of Chris Schwartz' benches, using a leg vise. The slanted leg will allow you to apply the clamping force directly in line with the screw and still allow you to keep your work vertically oriented. The length of the work is only limited by the height of the table, instead of the distance between the screw and the top of the table. There is no racking with this type of vise. I have a shim on the guide board for finer adjustment of the vice. The shim's thickness is 1/2 of the distance between the holes. This is either placed between the pin and the leg or not at all to make the adjustment. I made a hybrid of the two Chris Schwartz' tables, using the slanted legs. The front half of the top is 4" thick and the rear is 1.5" thick. There is a sliding support in the front for the Veritas holdfasts and the back has a 12" apron to stiffen the table. In this way I incorporated the slanted leg and also the ability to clamp to the top of the table from the front.

Jeff Skory
05-01-2009, 6:01 PM
WOW, great feedback!! :D

Let's see if I can reply to some of the comments:

Richard, I have Landis's book as well. I happen to like Schwarz's corny jokes and style of writing. And what I particularly like as mentioned by someone else was how he broke down different tasks and gave his opinion on which vise/tool worked best for him.

Eric, very cool bench with the adjustable height. A bit more than I want to tackle at the moment.

Daniel, interesting approach going with two leg vises rather than one leg vise and a sliding deadman.

Steve, nice looking bench but how sturdy is it when you are planing? Seems like even with the wheels locked it would move a bit.

John, as far as bending over I can't see that the handle on the leg vise would be that much lower, and Schwarz pointed out that since most of his work is 3/4" to 7/8" he found that he hardly ever needed to adjust the pin.

Thanks for all the great feedback.

Jeff Skory
05-01-2009, 6:04 PM
Consider making a bench with a slanted leg, as in one of Chris Schwartz' benches, using a leg vise. The slanted leg will allow you to apply the clamping force directly in line with the screw and still allow you to keep your work vertically oriented. The length of the work is only limited by the height of the table, instead of the distance between the screw and the top of the table. There is no racking with this type of vise. I have a shim on the guide board for finer adjustment of the vice. The shim's thickness is 1/2 of the distance between the holes. This is either placed between the pin and the leg or not at all to make the adjustment. I made a hybrid of the two Chris Schwartz' tables, using the slanted legs. The front half of the top is 4" thick and the rear is 1.5" thick. There is a sliding support in the front for the Veritas holdfasts and the back has a 12" apron to stiffen the table. In this way I incorporated the slanted leg and also the ability to clamp to the top of the table from the front.


I like the idea of the slanted leg. I have pretty much settled on Schwarz's Roubo table after re-reading the Task section of the book and looking at this table. I am actually thinking of not putting a twin-screw on at this point because it sounds like I may not make much use of it.

So with your hybrid did you still use straight legs? If so did you build a slanted support behind the slanted leg?

Jeff Skory
05-01-2009, 7:58 PM
Floyd, do you have pictures of your bench?

David Gendron
05-01-2009, 8:21 PM
Floyd, it would be great to see some pics of your bench and set up!
Pics are so nice!!

Floyd Mah
05-02-2009, 1:28 AM
I did use a slanted leg on my bench. The legs are slanted like Schwarz' English bench. The top is thicker in the front and thinner in the back. It turned out that there was an article in FWW describing a similar top a few years ago. I'll see if I can include a few iPhone photos. Sorry about the quality of the photos (and the mess in the workshop). The views are of the leg vise, the end section of the top and the wagon vise on the right end. I've been letting the wood settle and will tackle flattening the top and trimming the irregular parts of the table this summer.

Floyd Mah
05-02-2009, 1:35 AM
Hopefully the images are here:

David Gendron
05-02-2009, 1:49 AM
Look good, how did you attached the legs to the top, look like tenon and mortises, draw bore?

Rob Fargher
05-02-2009, 2:09 AM
Nice bench! But what is that green metal thing on your bench? :-)

--
Cheers,
Rob

Floyd Mah
05-02-2009, 2:10 AM
It's a mortise and tenon, made up of laminations of the top and pinned from the side with stepped dowels. The trickiest part was placing the mortise so that it didn't overlap with wagon vise or the dog holes. I used a different technique to make the dog holes, which I described in an earlier post. Most people describe taking a long top board and cutting the dog holes with a router. This can be a dusty job and I hate to use a router. What I did was use a bandsaw to cut each step for the dog-hole board and laminated the sides and each step, gluing each step in place. Basically, I had a stack of blocks which I glued between two boards, like rungs in a ladder. I used a contrasting wood, mahogany, which was tougher than the Douglas fir of the top, as the top 1" of each step.
Another interesting construction detail was that the rail for the shelf at the bottom had to be applied from the bottom, after placing essentially a floating tenon into the slanted leg to join to the rail. This was because the rails went on last and the legs were slanted.

Floyd Mah
05-02-2009, 2:13 AM
I didn't think I would be on this forum for so long. The green vise is a very cool vise that I got from JapanWoodworkers. It's called "Carvers/Patternmaker's Vise "
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=99%2E097&dept_id=13149.

It is a very wide-throated vise that swivels on a post that goes through the top. Originally, I had it mounted on my smaller table with an additional pivot that allowed me to tip it vertically. It was my version of the Emmett vise. I haven't figured how to get a similar installation on this table.

Jeff Skory
05-02-2009, 8:32 AM
Thanks Floyd. I am thinking that I may stick with the original Schwarz Roubo bench, add a fifth leg and slant the leg vise.

Jeff Skory
05-02-2009, 8:40 AM
Well, off to go make a batch of homebrew with some brewing buddies. I'm making a saison.