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View Full Version : ESP90 and/or LDD What is it, how does it work etc?



Lyle W. Kerr
07-28-2009, 7:26 AM
I have been re-reading a great book call The Art of The Lathe, to bone up on some things and came acroos an article about preserving green wod for turning. One of the very interesting items was ESP90. I have looked around on the internet for related topics and can not seem to find anything newer than 2004 for wood preserving topic ESP90 and as I was looking came across LDD using dish soap with just no specifics on it. A few of the links on various posts for it turn up no good as well.

My questions is, does anyone know how ESP90 is done, or is it still a locked up secret or sanke oil? Can anyone explain the process of LDD for wood? I had a maple takken down and have a lot of great wood I want to use for various projects but the first thing I made with the wood split real bad.

I purchased some Pentacryl at my local WoodCraft, but a $20.00 for a small bottle it seems quite steep to use often.

Last, to really get things going and this may be better for another post what is the best way for drying wood with out additional equipment?

Darryl Hansen
07-28-2009, 7:54 AM
LDD is liquid dish detergent. The soap normally used was bought form COSCO but I have used various brands. It involves soaking the partially turned bowl in a 50/50 slution of water and soap. I have had better experience using alcohol. the soap bath does impart a slippery feeling to the wood and makes sanding easier. The denatured alcohol though seems to work better in keeping a form from splitting. the technique though is used mainly with forms that already turned.

For not turned wood Anchorseal or just paint laying around seems to be the recommended material.

Reed Gray
07-28-2009, 1:20 PM
I have posted on this a number of times, but what the heck....

I turn green to final thickness and then let them dry and warp before sanding and finishing. After trying the DNA, LDD, and air drying methods, I have settled on the LDD. With measured tests of all 3 methods, on the thin (1/4 to 1/2 inch thick) there is no measurable or observable difference in drying time or cracking. The only noticable difference I could find was the DNA wood was harder to sand out, and the LDD was a lot easier to sand out. 24 hour minimum soak, rinse off, then wrap and allow to dry.

Given the results others have had with DNA soaked bowl blanks that are thick for returning when dry, there is a difference in drying time. I haven't tested that out.

The origional method of drying was to wrap the bowl on the outside with a couple of wraps of newspaper, secure it to the rim of the bowl with masking tape, and cut out the paper on the inside of the bowl. I modified this method by using plastic stretch film (the stuff you use to wrap around boxes on a pallet to keep them from falling off, available at Office Max, or other office supply places). This works a lot better than just putting them in a paper bag, and using shavings. The idea is that the bowl will dry from the inside out. The inside drys and shrinks, pulling the outside inwards, putting the bowl in a compression mode. The plastic on the rim contributes to this. Pacific Madrone is the most difficult wood to dry and keep from cracking that I have run across. This method allows me to turn then thicker than I used to and get almost no cracking, even off knots. Gently ease the edges of the rim as in no sharp 90 degree edges when turning as the sharp edges will tend to dry quicker than the rest and can start cracks. I have done a number of them where I just wrap the rim with the 6 inch wrap, with about 1 inch or more overlapping the rim towards the inside of the bowl. Maybe wrapping the rim is the critical thing here, more so than the paper wrap.

robo hippy

Greg Just
07-28-2009, 1:55 PM
I have been using the LDD method for about a year with great results. I have not had any cracked bowls. I soak them for a minimum of 24 hours, usually 48, rinse them and let them dry 2-3 weeks wrapped in newspaper.

A question for Reed - when you are using the plastic wrap, is there a hole on the inside like when using newspaper?

Wally Dickerman
07-28-2009, 3:32 PM
Whatever treatment you use when drying wood, the whole idea is to slow the drying process to prevent cracking.

For a lot of years, at least 30, I've used Johnson's paste wax. When a bowl or vessel has been roughed out I very liberally slather it with the wax. If it's quite wet I'll give it a second treatment. (Johnson's is quite soft). If the wood is one that is prone to cracking such as fruit wood, I use Anchorseal, a wood sealer, instead. If the wood is very wet I'll bag it in a brown paper bag for a few weeks. I very seldom experience cracked wood and I live in hot dry Arizona. I've done this with many hundreds of bowls and vessels and my success rate is very high.

To prevent mold don't store it in a plastic bag for more than a few days.

If you're cutting up the maple get some wood sealer such as Anchorseal and cover all of the end grain. The wood will crack if you don't.

Right now I have perhaps 60 or 70 roughed out pieces, mostly hollow forms. None are cracked.

I buy Direct from Johnson's, 6 cans at a time.

Wally

Lyle W. Kerr
07-28-2009, 8:57 PM
Wow, thank you, this helps a lot!

Liquid Dish Detergent, huh, how easy was that?!? So it sounds like the LDD is good for after you started to turn a piece and Anchorseal is for preserving untouched wood like the maple logs I have. Do I have that correct?

Also anyone have any info on the ESP90?