Help with used Shaper info

[Curt Taylor]

Hi all,
I've been looking at used shapers to add to my shop. This would be for personal use and I would adding a power feeder. Alot of the use would be for T&G paneling, casing and base molding that will be used in the shop and basement remodeling projects. I have ran across some shapers that I think would do the job and would like some feedback. Delta 43-375 2hp, PM #24, 2hp and a G5912Z. The Griz for sure has what seems to be the most up to date options but I�m alittle taken back by the 5hp motor only having 14amps. Whats up with that??? Didn�t think that was really possible. Makes me wonder about the rest of the machine. If anyone has any experience with any of the Shapers I�d surely like any and all feedback I can get. I have read quite a bit about the PM 27�s but have no info on the PM24 and can�t find out much about them. Will a 2hp shaper, even the older ones with real HP ratings work for what I�m looking to do? Thanks

[Paul Symchych]

You will no doubt be told that the bare minimum HP is something far bigger than what you're looking at. Probably no doubt that more HP will cut faster and all that. All I can say is that I have the smaller Jet with 1.5HP and have had no difficulty cutting hickory and hard maple. I don't have a power feeder but it sounds like one would make your large volume jobs easier. Could be that I am not experienced enough to know that I'm under powered.
The softer woods you will likely use for your projects ought to be no problem with sharp cutters.

BTW: whats with all the strange punctuation?

[Jerome Hanby]

at 240 volts, wouldn't 14 amps be in the ball park for 5HP. Seems like a 3.25 HP router pulls about 15 amps... I'm sure the shaper wouldn't have a universal motor like the rputer and it's induction motor should be more efficient.

[Curt Taylor]

Thanks for the replies. Paul, I'm not sure what the strange punctuation is about. I don't remember it being part of the original post.
I did find out that the Delta is a 3hp @15amps. I believe that's about the same as the 3hp on my Unisaw. That still has me wonding about the 5hp Griz. Anyone own the G5912Z and can commit on it's power, etc?

[David Kumm]

Curt, 12-15 amps is generally a 3 phase 5 hp motor. A true single phase 5 is 22-24 amps. It is not only the hp but the strength of the spindle that becomes important when you spin cutters on a shaper. If you are looking at used the upcharge to find a 3-5 hp PM 27 type is worth it. A feeder is important but the constant load on the shaper makes it necessary to start with enough mass in the machine to last. You will find a million uses for a good shaper. A poor one is worse than a router table. I don't know your price range but shapers are pretty reasonable. I just bought a SCMI t130-10 yrs old but never used for $3750. It is about $10k+ new. If you buy one, check the runout. Should be 1/1000 but not much more. Dave

[Curt Taylor]

Wow David thats a heck of a machine for $3750. Maybe I'll keep my eyes open for a PM27 or similar. I don't really think I'd be able to go much bigger in my shop though. I assume you'd stay away from the G5912Z and keep an eye out for better made older shaper. Thanks for the reply.

[David Kumm]

Curt, I've not used the grizzly. I had a little 3hp SECO that was surprisingly good and about $1000 but sometimes you get lucky. It is the 3 phase industrial machines that are the best deal because far fewer are able to cope with the size and power. The machine you listed is a 5 hp machine and most likely pretty solid. I am guessing the motor is the weak point. I have had small shop guys tell me they like grizzly for the price but not the motors. Whether you do new or used, talk to anyone you can including any machinery repair guys. They have a different view of what is good. The SCMI is a slider, 9hp. I consider it a good deal because I could haul it without additional cost and condition was like new. Not a super deal in this market. Once you get near $3000 there are lots of choices. Dave

[Peter Quinn]

I have a Delta very similar to the one you listed, 3HP, 3/4" spindle. Its a solid machine that will do lots of work for you. I see them pretty regular in the $600-$700 range, I paid $725 for mine used, but just barely used. That weight class will do tons of things. Base moldings are often only a very small cut, and they handle that easily. T&G paneling is no sweat, and 5pc doors are easy too, as are most small moldings. If you get into passage/entry doors, larger moldings, integral tenons, that requires a bigger machine really. And a bigger budget or another method. I have made entry doors on the 3HP delta, but it takes a bit more work than on the bigger machine, and a bit more sanding. And if it were a real regular thing, I think cartridge rebuilds would be too.

As to those pesky "5HP motors that only draw 14A" I call BS. No dice. I also have an SCMI minimax shaper that is 5HP, and it draws 14A, but that is 3PH. Thee phase motors do take less amps per HP, more efficient. My 5HP PM66 takes 24A and uses all of it. If you start looking around at some catalogues of tools that seem priced very affordably, almost too good to be true, then you start thinking about what you know about HP ratings/amperage draw at a given volts/etc, you wind up scratching your head! I'm not naming names here, because that seems to get ones post deleted these days, but keep your eyes open and trust your instincts. If it smells overrated, it probably is over rated!

While on the subject,of 5HP shapers, I got my minimax for $900 in very good shape, and it is a hell of a good little machine. I call it the little buffalo, because I have used much larger machines, and this one performs a lot like them but in a smaller footprint more appropriate for my small shop. So like David said, look around at the used market some more and you may see more options pop up.

[Jeff Duncan]

My choice between the two would be the Delta, but I'm just not a huge Grizzly fan. The Delta is a good little shaper that will do most of what your looking to do. If you can find one with the newer aluminum fence it's much better than the basic fence. Now having said that the Powermatic is a significant upgrade in my opinion....except for the fence.

good luck,
JeffD

[Peter Quinn]

\If you can find one with the newer aluminum fence it's much better than the basic fence.
good luck,
JeffD

Very much agreed. Mine came with the old style delta fence, which was a real POS they should be embarrassed to have made. Real nuisance IMO. I added the newer X5 fence with the aluminum fence plates and independently adjusting fence halves, and that is one of the better fences available as an aftermarket option. Really nice euro style fence there. I don't remember paying much more than $375 for the X5 hood, but its pretty pricey now. This my play into your decision, because that old stock delta fence is not much fun to work with.