PDA

View Full Version : Just a Thought....



Mark Singer
06-18-2005, 1:31 PM
It is pretty easy to predict the controversial topics...ones that will lead to pure sensless fighting. Why?

My suggestion which I made early in the thread was that all this has been discussed many times before and to just link them to the the old thread and be done with it!

Why engage in this futile dialog....life is too short and it is what we all see as weakness in other Forums....our participation lowers us to that level.

The bigger problem for me is it has nothing to do with woodworking! Long before any of these fancy new tools existed woodworkers devised , jigs and methods to achieve great results....put your effort into that....and then tell the SMC Forum how you did it!

I , for one, would be quite interested!

Frank Pellow
06-18-2005, 1:42 PM
Mark, I agree with you that it was fairly predictable that there would be a "fight" in the thread that you mention. But, as I said then, I will say again that there was new information in the thread. Unfortuanately, Ken had to spend time getting rid of some posts, but some of the posts that remain in the thread are valuable.

Ken Fitzgerald
06-18-2005, 2:43 PM
Mark.....I'm with you!

A lot of these topics have been covered many times. Unless somebody has some dramatically new information, the odds of somebody changing anothers opinion on those subjects are pretty slim. While we all have a right to our opinions, regardless of how strongly we believe in that opinion....it's still just our opinion. We all have a right to be treated respectfully regardless of our differing opinions.

I am sorry Ken was forced to edit and finally stop all posting to that one thread.

Now.......in 4 weeks of inactivity my wallboard compound has gone sour :( ....to the Borg and back to mudding the ceiling in the shop. :( Anybody want to attend a "mudding" party? :confused: :rolleyes: ......I'd furnish some cheap beer or soft drinks.... :confused: :rolleyes: :D

Per Swenson
06-18-2005, 3:39 PM
Ken.

!/2 inch drill, large mudmixer, (they look like paint mixers,just bigger),

1 ounce of liquid dish washing detergent, 1 round trip ticket

Newark to Boise. Have it waiting at the Continental gate under Swenson,

see you monday.

Per

Dan Forman
06-18-2005, 4:03 PM
I think this pretty much sums it up. The name can be changed to fit the circumstances. Perhaps this could be flashed at the first at the first sign of a flare-up. It's one of my favorite cartoons, we all have a little bit of this guy in us, sometimes he just gets out of hand. Hope this is received in the spirit it is given.


Dan

Jay Knoll
06-18-2005, 4:09 PM
Mark, it seems to me that part of the problem may be not the topic but the fact that it seems to be the only reason that some people participate in this forum. If their postings were both about product and projects maybe others in this group wouldn't be so quick to rise to the challenge.

At the same time, I wonder why some of those posts aren't just stopped dead. Are we consistently complying with the TOS? Specifically:


1. Direct Commercial Affiliation
It is our policy not to solicit commercial advertisers. Thus, we
expect our Members to adhere to the same policy. Posts made by
Members with direct commercial affiliation, and with the apparent intent of using SawMill Creek for the sole purpose of promoting a product or service will be subject to removal. Members with direct commercial affiliation are defined to be those Members who stand to benefit financially from such a promotion.

Maybe we should encourage both F and E to create (and pay for) a Manufacturer's forum where anyone who wants information and advocacy concerning a particular product line can post and particpate.

Then we can get back to the subject of projects, problems, questions, (yeah and gloats :D ) that are MUCH more interesting.

Jay

John Miliunas
06-18-2005, 4:47 PM
Mark, can't argue one bit with what you stated! I also agree that, if there is some major revolation with a system, I'd be interested in seeing it. But, rehashing the same X vs. Y is getting old. We all pick the tools we have for many of our own reasons and it's only human nature to feel it's the BEST tool for those very reasons. Rarely will those same reasons apply globally to all users. As Mark indicates, MOST of those reasons have been hashed and rehashed on any number of threads here and at other boards. I have absolutely nothing against reverence to particular pieces of equipment, if a real "how-to" is included. NOT how this, that or the other thing can be "better done" with a competative system. :) :cool:

Mike Cutler
06-18-2005, 4:52 PM
Yeah that thread was a tough one, luckily for me I don't own either of those product lines... who knows what the future holds though.
I gotta agree with you Mark. There are things I'd like to learn, and not through the "trial and effort college of knowledge" . I can prettty much make do with just about anything. I'd still like to know the right way though.
I think that is why I enjoy the posts by Bob Smalser. His posts are very informative, and while the subject is generally building boats, he seems to be able to marry the joinery and the application in a manner that is applicable to all disciplines of woodworking. I seem to always come away from reading his posts understanding just a little bit more.
Ken. I'd love to come help you. Unfortunately, there are two types of people that can hang drywall. Those that are good from the very first piece, and those that become very efficient at doing a half baked job. I unfortunately am in the latter category. Take Per up on his offer ;)

Mark Singer
06-18-2005, 5:05 PM
I appreciate the great responses....for me the true value of this forum is the knowledge and friendship we openly share and that is not worth risking over debating some trivial features of one brand versus another. What I have learned at SMC is a great deal...from some very knowlegable members.....Not so much about what to buy....but more on methods and materials , technques...and this is really woodworking ....you really learn from doing....bouncing ideas off friends....even making mistakes

Many of those knowlegeable people seem to take the high road and don't enter these senseless discussions....

As friends, these are the values I think we should uphold, protect and cherish...

I don't care what saw you use.....show me what your making with it!

Ken Fitzgerald
06-18-2005, 5:40 PM
Per.....I've got the mixer....I've got the 1/2" drill....(Note....I was careful not mention the brandname..... :eek: :rolleyes: :D ) unfortunately for me the plane ticket would bust my shop budget. Thanks for the offer .......I'll just stumble along on my own..... :)

Richard Wolf
06-18-2005, 6:12 PM
I agree with Jay Knoll. I have noticed, but was reluctant to ever start a confrontation, that there are people that may have good intentions, but pounce on the opportunity to jump in on a tread about E or F. You couldn't be a menber of this forum for more than a week without realizing that both of these product lines are top of the line, but I rather hear it from a consumer instead of a sales pitch.

Richard

lou sansone
06-18-2005, 8:00 PM
I agree with mark... we are supposed to be learing how to build furniture not how to market the latest and greatest tool

lou

Ken Fitzgerald
06-18-2005, 8:44 PM
Mark....I also agree with your last statement. I have learned a lot here at the Creek. I've said it more than once when welcoming new members .....there all here from Beginners (like me) to Pros all willing exchange information.....to lend an opinion.......all with the love of w/w.


Per.....I used your idea......I was able to regenerate the bucket of joint compound......so I'm just taking a break......for the most part I'm just "mud"deling along :rolleyes: :D .......I just hate mudding drywall!! :cool:

Allen Bookout
06-18-2005, 8:53 PM
Seems like that everyone knows what Mark is talking about but me. It would be nice to know what thread is being discussed so that I would know what not to do. I must be missing something apparent. Allen

Frank Pellow
06-18-2005, 9:04 PM
Seems like that everyone knows what Mark is talking about but me. It would be nice to know what thread is being discussed so that I would know what not to do. I must be missing something apparent. AllenIt is this thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=21396

The ofensive posts have been removed.

Dennis Peacock
06-18-2005, 9:44 PM
I appreciate the great responses....for me the true value of this forum is the knowledge and friendship we openly share and that is not worth risking over debating some trivial features of one brand versus another. What I have learned at SMC is a great deal...from some very knowlegable members.....Not so much about what to buy....but more on methods and materials , technques...and this is really woodworking ....you really learn from doing....bouncing ideas off friends....even making mistakes

Many of those knowlegeable people seem to take the high road and don't enter these senseless discussions....

As friends, these are the values I think we should uphold, protect and cherish...

I don't care what saw you use.....show me what your making with it!

Here, Here..!!!! AMEN and AMEN!!!!!! Very well state Mark. I'm with you. :D

Bob Noles
06-18-2005, 10:13 PM
I appreciate the great responses....for me the true value of this forum is the knowledge and friendship we openly share and that is not worth risking over debating some trivial features of one brand versus another. What I have learned at SMC is a great deal...from some very knowlegable members.....Not so much about what to buy....but more on methods and materials , technques...and this is really woodworking ....you really learn from doing....bouncing ideas off friends....even making mistakes

Many of those knowlegeable people seem to take the high road and don't enter these senseless discussions....

As friends, these are the values I think we should uphold, protect and cherish...

I don't care what saw you use.....show me what your making with it!

Mark.... Very well put!

I have and always will go by simplicity of not posting to a thread unless I have something "POSITIVE" to add and thinking hard about the words on my screen before hitting the "Submit" button.

SMC has been a valuable and good source of knowledge to me and I owe it to the members and staff to abide by the guidelines and give the same courtesy and respect that I would expect in return.

It is easy to get caught up in a moment of excitement or passion, but we should first examine the underlying intent and value of exchange before responding or being lured into a devil's triangle.

There are better ways to spend one's time than to beat a dead horse.

Dino Makropoulos
06-18-2005, 11:00 PM
Per.....I used your idea......I was able to regenerate the bucket of joint compound......so I'm just taking a break......for the most part I'm just "mud"deling along :rolleyes: :D .......I just hate mudding drywall!! :cool:

Ken.
Try this now. (The D-Mix)
2-1/2 gallons of joint compound.
1/2 to 1 gallon of latex PVA primer.
And one quart of plaster of Paris.

Mix the jc with the primer first. Add the pop at the end.
Your mix should be like heavy paint. and rollable.

Now you can apply the D-Mix with 3/4" lambskin roller and the rest is EZ.
Wet your roller with water for 5 minutes before using.
You can cover an area 4'x4' on with each roller dip.
Now you can make your finish as smooth as you like with taping knifes and if the mix gets hard you can apply more mix or spray water to make it soft again. This mix don't create skin and allows you to rework the same materials until you're done.
The results of this method should give you a veneer plaster look finish ...second to none.
And with no sanding at the end. :cool:

Mark Singer
06-19-2005, 11:46 AM
There is a product called Hamilton's prep coat which is similar to what Dino is suggesting...It provides a good paintable surface and eliminates the paper surface on gyp bd....


How did this Thread turn into a drywall finishing Thread?
Who cares ! Just enjoy Fathers Day and take a break from anything that you don't want to do....like drywall...;)

Ken Fitzgerald
06-19-2005, 11:50 AM
Mark......at least we're not discussing those two subjects and helpful information is being transmitted.......I'm sorry I didn't mean to steal your thread........but it is an example of what you desire except it's not furniture........ :confused:

Mark Singer
06-19-2005, 11:54 AM
100% Correct ! Ken....it is a fine subject!
Mark......at least we're not discussing those two subjects and helpful information is being transmitted.......I'm sorry I didn't mean to steal your thread........but it is an example of what you desire except it's not furniture........ :confused:

Rich Konopka
06-19-2005, 1:51 PM
It is pretty easy to predict the controversial topics...ones that will lead to pure sensless fighting. Why?

My suggestion which I made early in the thread was that all this has been discussed many times before and to just link them to the the old thread and be done with it!

Why engage in this futile dialog....life is too short and it is what we all see as weakness in other Forums....our participation lowers us to that level.

The bigger problem for me is it has nothing to do with woodworking! Long before any of these fancy new tools existed woodworkers devised , jigs and methods to achieve great results....put your effort into that....and then tell the SMC Forum how you did it!

I , for one, would be quite interested!

Bravo, Bravo !!!

I actually find myself spending less and less time at SMC because of the repetitive banter about what tool is bigger and better. Can we split General Woodworking and Power Tools into 2 separate distinct forums? How about a Gloat Forum? Okay I'm pushing it. :D:D:p

Happy Fathers Day.

Mark Singer
06-19-2005, 2:31 PM
Rich,

I find your post very interesting and I hope others are reading it!
Happy Fathers Day to you!

Bravo, Bravo !!!

I actually find myself spending less and less time at SMC because of the repetitive banter about what tool is bigger and better. Can we split General Woodworking and Power Tools into 2 separate distinct forums? How about a Gloat Forum? Okay I'm pushing it. :D:D:p

Happy Fathers Day.

Ray Bersch
06-19-2005, 2:50 PM
I actually find myself spending less and less time at SMC because of the repetitive banter about what tool is bigger and better.

Gosh, Rich, I find it just the opposite - I have stopped visiting most other sites because of the quality of the posts here at SMC - it seems that so many folks on the other foums chime in with snide remarks about just anything and then others reply so that a simple question or offer to sell something takes on an unpleasant life that benefits no one except those that enjoy such drivel.

I do not indend my remark to be a universal condemnation of other forums - there are, indeed, several good fourms and many well indended participants. But at least at SMC you can address a person by his or her real first name and many folks post a photo of themselves- that alone, in my opinion, promotes harmony.

There are some among us who have strong opinions about certain topics and may be quick to defend their opinions. But we know who they are and I know that most of them also post good info on other topics. As a whole, I believe that offending threads on SMC are much less frequent than on any other woodworking forum that I have found. Also, we have great moderators who not only pay attention to what is going on but also have the guts to put a stop to offending threads - and they do so without the fear of FREEDOM OF SPEACH outcries - because they know that is what our members want.

I hope you continue to frequent SMC.
Ray

Jerry Olexa
06-19-2005, 2:59 PM
[QUOTE=Rich Konopka]Bravo, Bravo !!!

I actually find myself spending less and less time at SMC because of the repetitive banter about what tool is bigger and better. Can we split General Woodworking and Power Tools into 2 separate distinct forums? How about a Gloat Forum? Okay I'm pushing it. :D:D:p

Rich well said. I like your idea on separate forums. Hate to be a complete Dumbeeee but what was the original post Mark was referring to??

Ken Fitzgerald
06-19-2005, 8:17 PM
Dino...thanks for the suggestion. I'll bookmark this thread and try it on my next project......sorry again Mark....didn't mean to steal the thread....did feel I needed to reply to Dino.

Rich Konopka
06-19-2005, 8:34 PM
Gosh, Rich, I find it just the opposite - I have stopped visiting most other sites because of the quality of the posts here at SMC - it seems that so many folks on the other foums chime in with snide remarks about just anything and then others reply so that a simple question or offer to sell something takes on an unpleasant life that benefits no one except those that enjoy such drivel.

I do not indend my remark to be a universal condemnation of other forums - there are, indeed, several good fourms and many well indended participants. But at least at SMC you can address a person by his or her real first name and many folks post a photo of themselves- that alone, in my opinion, promotes harmony.

There are some among us who have strong opinions about certain topics and may be quick to defend their opinions. But we know who they are and I know that most of them also post good info on other topics. As a whole, I believe that offending threads on SMC are much less frequent than on any other woodworking forum that I have found. Also, we have great moderators who not only pay attention to what is going on but also have the guts to put a stop to offending threads - and they do so without the fear of FREEDOM OF SPEACH outcries - because they know that is what our members want.

I hope you continue to frequent SMC.
Ray

I agree with you regarding the other sites. I do not visit them that much. It is the same ole stuff. I do not believe that to be the case here. However, I think it is every SMC members duty to prevent SMC from becoming just like the other forumns. I have not found anyone on this site who does not behave other than a Gentleman or a lady. I raise my Glass of 99 Cab to the moderators for enforcing these standards.

IMHO, It seems to be quite a bit of tool talk. I find myself guilty as charged. Sometimes it comes across that we are all trying to keep up with the Jones when it comes to tools. I find myself yearning for the posts where some builds a piece of furniture that is going to be published in FWW. Where else in the world can I get exposure to these resources?

I also cherish the notes from our boys and girls in Iraq upon receiving a pen which was turned by the hands of one of our esteemed members. This is what draws me to SMC.

Correct me if I am wrong that by splitting Power Tools and Woodworking into two forumns would allow the tool junkies to prosper and the Woodworkers to build within thier own respective forumns.

Per Swenson
06-19-2005, 9:07 PM
Rich,

<!-- / message --><!-- sig --> I do not wish to correct you, " Correct me if I am wrong that by splitting Power Tools and Woodworking into two forums would allow the tool junkies to prosper and the Woodworkers to build within thier own respective forums".

Maybe you are not wrong, but besides for this one abberant tool rivalry,

The forum is splendid as is.

There are no, "my jointer is bigger then yours" or
" Youre a Idjit if you don't buy deltamaticstop table saw"
No, only on this one issue. So lets let it go.


I will do my part though, as a member of one camp I will no longer
respond in this fray . Time to declare peace and move on.

As Mr Singer wrote so well, lets see what you are making with your
tool of choice.

Sometimes it is very easy to get wrapped up in the moment.
It would be so much easier not to respond ,then ruin a good thing.

Per

Ken Fitzgerald
06-19-2005, 10:03 PM
Rich and Per.........and that's what's so different about SMC.......you both have considered it's importance and would be willing to make changes to see it continue. And it will.....because of your attitudes and the attitudes of other members. You are both right.........changing the forums would resolve the problem and changing personal attitudes will resolve the problem.....I suspect this post will change some attitudes and that is probably what Mark Singer's original intention was..........bring to light the problems and cause attitudes to change.......SMC will survive and continue to grow......and we'll all trade information, stories, opinions in a friendly and civil manner! Bravo! :)

Mark Singer
06-20-2005, 1:57 AM
As many of you have stated SMC is a very special place and it is the members that really make it. I don't think that anyone starts out with intentions to be abrasive and let things get out of control.....it just happens. Sometimes it is possible to grow from such experiences, to become sensitive to a thread going sour and knowing what course to take. I have tremendous respect for the other Moderators and the members of this forum.....nothing that happened will change that.... Just like in a good relationship.......it is healthy to talk things out and see just what happened.... This is a good thing.....I think we grow from this experience. I understand the interest in tools and the desire to get proper direction....I make choices and solicit advice often....and I have come to trust the SMC members on such things...I love to see quality work and the methods taken to build something....on balance we are still way ahead....and moving in a very positive direction!

Chris Padilla
06-20-2005, 2:19 AM
Group hug, Everyone, group hug...and check out my latest pics of the Garage-mah-hal!!!!
:D :D :D