Collecting and not using Planes [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Eric Hartunian

03-09-2008, 5:08 PM

Ok, that sounds bad. I am a confessed user. Most of my work is without power tools, so I use them all. That said, I don't have a lot of duplicates. I see some pics where guys have quite a few of the same style plane. I can see the logic in that it saves setup time if you have multiples, like different bevel angles, or cambered blades vs straight.

Having said that, I'm sure we all have our favorites, and despite how many tools I actually own, I tend to use a few favs more than others.

Eric

Doug Shepard

03-09-2008, 5:10 PM

I have to admit to having a few that haven't been used yet (other than test cuts) but none of mine were bought with any intention other than using them. Dont have room for a trophy case or a bunch of tools I'll never use, so if ever I realize that something's likely to remain unused, I'll sell it.

Steve Rozmiarek

03-09-2008, 5:42 PM

How many of you guys out there just collect planes and don't use them? It seems that many on these forums have a TON of planes. Do you actually use them all on a regular basis? Or do you just put them in your trophy case in your shop, with glass doors of course, for all to see how many you've got?

I do both. Not much use for a #74 floor plane these days, but when a good deal presented itself, I couldn't resist. It doesn't get used, neither do the #1's, #2's, or the other rare oddball stuff. I do use the regular planes though. No glass doored case here. Working on a pair of nice cabinets to hold all this stuff though. Not sure what you consider a ton of planes. I haven't counted recently, but 200ish in total. (don't tell my wife...):o

Gary Herrmann

03-09-2008, 6:00 PM

Not sure what you consider a ton of planes. I haven't counted recently, but 200ish in total. (don't tell my wife...):o

Ok, Steve, what would you consider a ton of planes? 200ish?

Those are gonna be some big cabinets ;)

Says the guy with maybe 10...

gary Zimmel

03-09-2008, 6:14 PM

I"ve got more than a couple that I don't use # 1,2 3 for example.

Lots are used on a regular basis and I use hand planes on every project. As time goes on I am trying to do more and more with hand tools.

And yes ,I have to confess, have got nice looking plane and saw tills.
(no glass doors though)

Thom Sturgill

03-09-2008, 6:20 PM

Ok, Steve, what would you consider a ton of planes? 200ish?
Actually at about 5lbs each it would take about 400.:cool:

Clint Jones

03-09-2008, 6:51 PM

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r256/junkerjones/MVC-201S.jpgYeah I think it would be sensible to use these planes.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r256/junkerjones/MVC-196S.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r256/junkerjones/MVC-197S.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r256/junkerjones/MVC-199S.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r256/junkerjones/MVC-200S.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r256/junkerjones/MVC-204S.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r256/junkerjones/best5.jpg

Maybe we should rip a native american canoe from a museum and start riding it down the river or we can take civil war rifles and hunt with them :D If it werent for the conservation of tools little would be known about their history. How many times a month does someone post "What type is my No.5". If it werent for collectors we wouldnt know or care. I have a few planes and some are for use and some are to look at. Why would I pull a $1000 type 1 94 out of the box that hasnt been used ever to trim a tenon when I have a 93 with BOB scratched on the side can do the same job???? Think about it. -Clint

Dan Barr

03-09-2008, 7:29 PM

Why would I pull a $1000 type 1 94 out of the box that hasnt been used ever to trim a tenon when I have a 93 with BOB scratched on the side can do the same job???? Think about it. -Clint

LOL

And thanks for answering my "what type is my No 4" question.

Ciao,

dan

Grant Vanbokklen

03-09-2008, 7:45 PM

Classic LOL

"I use..
I am a confessed user."

"Ok, Steve, what would you consider a ton of planes?"
"Actually at about 5lbs each it would take about 400."

"Maybe we should rip a native american canoe from a museum and start riding it down the river or we can take civil war rifles and hunt with them."

Lee Koepke

03-09-2008, 7:45 PM

Do ya suppose in 50 or 60 yrs someone will post the same question on message boards asking about the LNs or the Veritas planes ??? :D

Thats a nice collection Clint. Very impressive indeed.

Mike Cutler

03-09-2008, 7:51 PM

Grant

I think the real question is why collect anything?

Some people are drawn to certain things, and their personal knowledge is enhanced and increased by collecting and analyzing the objects to which they are attracted too.
As far as planes go. it seems that a lot of folks sort of fall into collecting them as a way to get the necessary parts, and or the whole tool itself at a cost less than retail, or to a greater extent. to experience a better made tool than may be available any longer through retail means.
I don't collect planes, but I do have a few that may only ever be used once or twice. (If you find yourself continuously using a model 98 and 99, you might need to invest in a better ruler.:eek:,;)) But I have them for when their eventual intended purpose is required.
There are a lot worse vices in life than collecting handplanes.:D

Hey Cliff.
If you ever find a model 164 with "Mike" scratched into it, that one's mine. I think I lost it.:D,:rolleyes:
Nice planes bro', thanks for sharing the pics with us.

David DeCristoforo

03-09-2008, 8:11 PM

What a loaded question. Unfair! There are two "schools of thought" here. The "tools are meant to be used" people and the "preservation and conservation" people. Both are valid. An argument between them will never be resolved. So the best thing would be to encourage them understand each other or at least allow them to have their joy, even if you have to do it grudgingly. Unless of course, you just want to start a fight....

:)
YM

Jim Becker

03-09-2008, 8:13 PM

Wilbur Pan

03-09-2008, 8:32 PM

Why is there necessarily a dichotomy between being a collector and being a user? The way I look at it, I should only be concerned with the book value of a rare plane if I actually intend on selling it one day. I know that for my tools, that's just not going to happen.

I could draw a comparison to my guitars. I've been playing guitar for 25 years now, and one of my favorites is a 1938 Epiphone Broadway archtop. By any stretch of the imagination, this is a collectors item, although not as pricey as a Gibson L-5 of the same era. Even the construction of this guitar is relatively rare -- my Epiphone Broadway has walnut sides and back, as opposed to the much more common mahogany, maple, or rosewood. In fact, I can't think of another archtop that used walnut for the sides and back. I did buy it in part because I knew this was a guitar that I probably wouldn't run across again (and I haven't, not even on eBay or any other internet source for vintage guitars), and because of the age and materials used.

On the other hand, out of my guitars, my Epiphone Broadway is the most "collectible", and I play this guitar more than any other that I have, and have no hesitation in doing so. And it's not like I don't have other guitars to play.

So does that make me a collector or user? I think it's a little of both. I don't see why the same can't go for my tools.

David DeCristoforo

03-09-2008, 8:47 PM

"Why is there necessarily a dichotomy between being a collector and being a user?"

Good point. Your guitar "metaphor" made me think of an old friend who was a guitar repairman of some fame among musicians. He had an old Stella 12 string from the 20's that he kept alive for as long as he lived. He would sell it to someone with the condition that when they did not want or need it anymore, they would sell it back to him. Then he would fix it up and sell it to the next guy.

YM

rick fulton

03-09-2008, 9:07 PM

Grant,

Good question and many good answers.

I think a lot of people end up with a shelf full of rarely used planes because they are not satisfied with the results after fettling with a flea market or eBay plane. So next thing you know, your buying a bedrock 604 to replace your Sargent #4 (which gets relegated to “the” shelf). But wait, there is a deal at Craftsman Studio or FTJ that has a L-N 4 1/2 for 15% off. Now the 4 and the 604 sit on the shelf and collect dust. Next thing you know you have a collection of unused smoothers, blocks, jacks, jointers, shoulders, plows, infills, and combos.

Too bad it is so much work to sell unused users. It is also hard to let them go for cheap. Unfortunately, I'm sure they will all go for cheap when I die. The wife and kids will be happy to get $2 a piece for them via garage sale. Or sell them by the pound, just to get their parking space back.

rick (who is still looking for the ultimate smoother)

Michael Lutz

03-09-2008, 9:13 PM

I am a collector of user planes.

I just haven't gotten around to figuring out how they work. I have 9 or 10, some which were LOML grandfather's.

Mike

Jim Koepke

03-09-2008, 9:25 PM

Why is there necessarily a dichotomy between being a collector and being a user?

And then what if I don't want to be a collector, but instead an accumulator.
There are very few of my tools that are for show only. I do have a lot of duplicates and one of these days a round tuit will fall my way and an effort will be made to sell them.

I agree with Clint that some tools should be kept virgin for posterity. If a mint in box #1 from 1900 came my way, it would be awful tempting to take a shaving or two. Most likely though, it would be sold for the big buck$, then SWMBO would let me buy a used #1.

Of course, I like my tools because of what can be done with them. It is also enjoyable to know the history and the variety aspects we only know because of the work of collectors. This all gives us connections to the generations before us. Wether we use historical artifacts, study, collect or accumulate them, we get a feeling of those who did so before.

jim

Maurice Metzger

03-09-2008, 10:02 PM

I'm grateful to all tool collectors for increasing my knowledge about tools - and making old tools easy to find.

Not collecting *doesn't* mean I don't spend a lot of time reading about old tools in books or online. It's all interesting stuff.

I personally don't like to hold on to tools I don't use - but that's just me.

Having said that there really is no reason for keeping my Stanley 203...

Maurice

Roger Bell

03-09-2008, 10:18 PM

I know a number of Collectors who do in fact have some of their planes behind glass. I wouldn't characterize their reason for doing so as showing off to all the world. Those invited to see their collections consider the invitation a privilege.

Collecting is as such a focused discipline and an intense study of the history and the characteristics objects being collected....not an accumulation merely for its own sake. While some Collectors also have users or junk because they deal to support their real passion. And most that I know are also craftsmen in their own right, despite the the prevailing internet opinion.

The Collectors, by the way, are those that do really have the definitive answers to the most questions posed on forums like this. These are the guys that write the type studies and the guide books and are responsible for what scant knowledge that there is. Too bad that most of them choose not to participate in places like here. Why might you suppose that is?

Randal Stevenson

03-09-2008, 11:05 PM

Maybe we should rip a native american canoe from a museum and start riding it down the river or we can take civil war rifles and hunt with them :D If it werent for the conservation of tools little would be known about their history. How many times a month does someone post "What type is my No.5". If it werent for collectors we wouldnt know or care. I have a few planes and some are for use and some are to look at. Why would I pull a $1000 type 1 94 out of the box that hasnt been used ever to trim a tenon when I have a 93 with BOB scratched on the side can do the same job???? Think about it. -Clint

LOL, I have seen my share of other collectable things. Some meant to be used (like some of the musical instruments) and others not (that rifle that a movie was written about, that had NEVER been cocked). Planes I see collected, more by people who don't know how to use them and think they are rare. Only one person I knew, may (or may not) have ever had some with their original boxes (I know he had a few Router planes). On other boards, I have seen hunters talking about their finds. Out of these collector planes, some have been collector, due to where they were from (there is at least a couple old hardware stores with old stock stashed), and some turned out to be poorly machined, so they were out of square. Those were still in the boxes, but weren't flat.
So even some collectables, would take too much work to be users.

Clint, how much work do you go through to verify them like this? Check the soles, or just look at the condition and the boxes condition?

Clint Jones

03-09-2008, 11:42 PM

and some turned out to be poorly machined, so they were out of square. Those were still in the boxes, but weren't flat.
So even some collectables, would take too much work to be users.

Clint, how much work do you go through to verify them like this? Check the soles, or just look at the condition and the boxes condition?

Well I really dont understand what youre asking but no I dont check the sole of any of the planes I have that are new in the box I dont see any reason to. I dont plan on using them and dont plan on selling them.

Yes it gives me the warm fuzzies to hold and own tools that are 100 years old and have survived in thin cardboard boxes unused which to me is short of a miracle.

And yes it gives me the warm fuzzies to take a neglected No.5 100 years old and put an edge on it that can split hairs, listen to it swoosh over a board and make it glisten. Then pass it on to someone frustrated that has tried everything to get that groz to cut a borg piece of pine. If it werent from me it would have been thrown out or sitting in an antique shop for $150 cuz they saw it on the Antiques Roadshow.

I also see my collection as an investment. I know it wont yeild as much as a long term high interest CD or anything like that but at least I get to enjoy my investment. I know I have made a little $$ with my addiction and I have spent alot also (but definately not wasted).

Im a collector, restorer, user, and probably know a Stanley plane front to back inside and out. I appreciate quality craftsmanship in a day and age where work is shabby and outsourced to China to save pennies. If it is hurting someone because I am fascinated by Stanley planes and store 100s of them in boxes and on shelves it doesnt bother me one bit.

Bart Leetch

03-10-2008, 12:00 AM

The only "collector plane" I have is a transitional #26 that just plain :) needs a whole new wood portion to make it work correctly. It was a poor purchase on my part, but it does look kewel on the shelf. I really only buy tools that I intend to use.

I always find the name transitional humorous after reading that these planes were designed after the metal ones were already in use because the old timers didn't readily accept the all metal planes.

Bart Leetch

03-10-2008, 12:07 AM

I have one or two hand tools & I sharpen one up every once in a while. Some day I may even get them all sharpened.

Steve Rozmiarek

03-10-2008, 12:58 AM

Ok, Steve, what would you consider a ton of planes? 200ish?

Those are gonna be some big cabinets ;)

Says the guy with maybe 10...

Not as big as you might think. I was goofing around with a pile of planes on the bench the other day, and it is pretty easy to get 50 to 60 bench planes of sizes between #1 and #8, into a space of about 4' by 4'. A bunch of my planes are wood molding planes as well, and they don't weigh much:D

Steve Rozmiarek

03-10-2008, 1:03 AM

Nice stuff Clint! Really like that #85! Saw a nice #67 sell on the bay today. Almost bid, but got distracted by the smoking bandsaw motor, and forgot.... next time.

Henk Marais

03-10-2008, 5:32 AM

Clint, you and Harry are my heroes. One day when I am big I want to be as knoledgable as the two of you about hand tools. The only way I will be able to do that is to read your posts and to collect like yourselves.

Thanks and keep it up.

Henk Marais

PS: I will except any of your vintage planes that don't want anymore as payment.:D

Joe Cunningham

03-10-2008, 8:15 AM

Tool envy is bad for the soul.

:D

Randal Stevenson

03-10-2008, 8:44 AM

Well I really dont understand what youre asking but no I dont check the sole of any of the planes I have that are new in the box I dont see any reason to. I dont plan on using them and dont plan on selling them.

Yes it gives me the warm fuzzies to hold and own tools that are 100 years old and have survived in thin cardboard boxes unused which to me is short of a miracle.

I also see my collection as an investment. I know it wont yeild as much as a long term high interest CD or anything like that but at least I get to enjoy my investment. I know I have made a little $$ with my addiction and I have spent alot also (but definately not wasted).

All I was saying, is from some of the collectors I have read, the tools they normally find NIB, have some non cosmetic, but USE issue that caused them to stay NIB.

As for the investment, verses a CD of time, that depends on the economy (insert the old beer can recycling joke), and what else you do with your time. One of my grandparents said, "a hobby is something to keep you out of bars/trouble/court, etc, while your earning a living and raising a family, when you get to my age, your hobby/collectables, are antiques, that you can sell and use the money to have fun and get into trouble (can afford to get out)". I got a laugh out of that one.

Richard Niemiec

03-10-2008, 9:33 AM

For me, it wasn't so much collecting as accumulating, over a 10 year period, multiples of planes that just had me trading up to the best of the lot, and this past year I thinned the herd, leaving me with one of each of stanley's bench planes, 'cept for a #2, which somehow I never came across. I then took the proceeds and bought some newer versions of very hard to find stanley planes, like LV's low angle jack and smoother combo, some chisels and a 98 and 99, stuff like that.

But I still can't help stopping when I see a garage sale, 80% of the time, its a waste of time, but every once in a while, like this past saturday, while all the ladies are oohing and ahhing over the dainty teacups and Hummels for sale in the dining room, I wander into the garage and what do I find hanging on a nail but a nice turn of the century Disston D8, and underneath it a 14 or 15 pt Disston split nut backsaw (circa 1870 or before) both in pretty nice shape. Now, I already have one of each, but just can't leave them there so home they come, got sprayed with some WD-40 and one of these evenings I'll clean them up a bit and if they are not better than the ones I have I'll sell them off.

The herd will get larger.......

Billy Chambless

03-10-2008, 12:39 PM

All I was saying, is from some of the collectors I have read, the tools they normally find NIB, have some non cosmetic, but USE issue that caused them to stay NIB.

That's an interesting point. Similarly, some of the rare (and therefore collectible) items are rare because they flopped in the marketplace.

Personally, I collect mostly non-collectible tools, and use them. ;)

Cliff Rohrabacher

03-10-2008, 4:47 PM

I have like 2 maybe 3 old wood planes as decoration.
The others are used.

Brian Hale

03-10-2008, 5:17 PM

I have one Mint-In-The-Box Miller Falls 14 (with the black frog)that i haven't used yet. It's not that it's all that valuable and i can't say why i don't put it to use but there it sits all pretty and shiny.

My other 40 or so are all users.

Brian :)

Jay Jolliffe

03-10-2008, 5:20 PM

I have about 35 old wooden molding planes & a few others that I thought would be nice to own & not necessarily to use. That was my thinking a few years back. Now they sit in boxes not being used & thats a waste of a good tool. So I think I'll be selling them to some one that might use them & not put them in a box. When I do decide to sell them I'll post them here first then they go to the auction site.

Brian Hale

03-10-2008, 6:05 PM

Ooooooohhh

I don't have any molding planes, yet.... ;)

Let me know Jay, i'm sure we could work something out :D

Brian :)

Tom Henry

03-10-2008, 7:14 PM

Clint...OMG that is some collection!:eek: More pics would be great!

Narayan Nayar

03-10-2008, 7:59 PM

Sure, I'll bite. I've got 15 planes, four of which I received three days ago, and four more coming in the next 2-3 weeks. Of these 19, all but four are Lie-Nielsen. My 2 shoulder planes and bullnose plane are Veritas, and I have a Bridge City mini multi plane. Obviously, I haven't used the ones I don't yet have, and the ones I just received were all honed and tested over the weekend.

Of the 15 in my bench drawers, I'd say 4 of them get the most use, the #8 jointer probably the one with the most working time. Only one of the planes has yet gone unused, the large scraper plane, but that's mostly because I haven't built anything with highly figured wood (on which I would use a scraper) since getting it.

Every once in a while you come across a thread that suggests that unused <insert tool here> are a waste of a good tool (this isn't one of those threads, thankfully, which is why I'm participating). Of all the unusable crap in this world that people collect (my mom collects ceramic ducks and xmas houses), I have to say that planes and handtools in general make for a fine collection. I buy planes with an intention of using them but don't pressure myself to use them out of fear that I'm depriving someone somewhere of a handplane experience.

If anything, the Lie-Nielsen tools have opened up my eyes to the small universe of small toolmaking shops in the U.S., and I see keeping these operations in business a much more important act than keeping, say, WMH or Wilton or Home Depot in business. I'd be apt to buy tools I don't need from them just to have them and just to know I've given money towards an enterprise which has a work and business ethic I totally believe in; nevermind that these planes are absolutely beautiful artifacts, at least to my eye.

Thom Sturgill

03-10-2008, 8:02 PM

I've bought about a dozen planes now, couple of threes, fours and fives, a seven, a couple of spokeshaves, a #78 that I'm cleaning up (all users) and one old (1870s) woody that will probably never be used again.

The LOML is a history teacher and over the last 35 years has imbued me with a respect for history that creates a fuzzy line that says this tool deserves to rest. I have sharpened the blade and debated resoling or reparing the mouth or maybe just cambering the blade and using it, but I feel I need to do as little as possible to it.

John-Paul Murphy

03-10-2008, 8:50 PM

I collect tools :rolleyes: so I can use them;)
:D

Tom Wiarda

03-10-2008, 8:58 PM

I have a nice old plow plane with wooden screws and nuts that I display because it looks so nice. I also display a old few molding planes. All the others are users. I made a greenland style kayak paddle this weekend and had a chance to use a few of them. I used my no. 7, my 4 1/2, my grandfather's 603, and a LN low angle block plane. I also used a spokeshave and drawknife. The planes cut the cedar like a hot knife through butter.