Adobe Illustrator Adding in extra vector cuts

[Shane Turner]

Hi all! It's been a while since I've posted here.

I'm having a bit of a problem getting Illustrator to behave when printing diretly to the laser. Usually I export from Illustrator to pdf, import to Corel, then manually fixing up all the compatability issues. For complex art this can take a LONG time, and I'd much rather just print from Illustraor, but for some reason doing this is adding extra vector cut lines.

If, for example, I try to cut two vector boxes from illustrator, the laser will not turn off when traveling from one box to the other.
90506

Do any of you who have experience with Illustrator know a fix for this issue?

-Shane

[Doug Griffith]

I exclusively use Illustrator and this is a problem I had as well. Using the vector only driver solved the problem. You can download it from the Epilog website. Otherwise separating vector and bitmap on different layers helps but is not a complete cure.

[David Fairfield]

Oh yeah that looks familiar! I use exclusively adobe illustrator with my laser and had trouble with that before I figured out the various layers of issues which causes it.

Its caused partly by an inconsistency with your document dimensions and orientation, and the print driver dimensions and orientation. Partly by some confusion as to the boundaries of the artwork.

So make sure you have your document dimension setting dialed into the print driver exactly, and make sure page orentation is the same both in the .ai document and in the laser print driver. Its real easy to overlook, so double check those dimensions before you hit print!

If you did it right, in your print driver print preview window, you should see the entire document exactly as it appears on adobe, no dotted lines, border lined up exactly, oriented the same way, and nothing shaved off.

Make sure you have all your guides cleared from your document before you go to print.

Also, this is important, make sure the document is cropped close to your artwork. In other words, your artwork should not be floating in a lot of empty space, you want the border close to it. So if you are drawing a 3 x 5 inch square in adobe, make your document size something like 3.5" x 5.5" and then dial that into the laser print driver.

Finally, even if you do all of the above, some odd shapes and repetitive drawings might still result in stray vectoring burns. That will be prevented if you draw a vector line around the perimeter of the drawing before printing.

You do NOT have to separate raster and vector into two separate burns. YEs, that does work most of the time, and I used that method myself until I solved the issues as described above.

It was very very frustrating, especially since the tech people are generally not experienced with Adobe, but I now have no more problems and use ai flawlessly.

HTH
Dave

[Shane Turner]

Thanks David!

I'll work through the things you've suggested and see if that helps. I sure do hope so. I find Illustrator much more powerful and integrates will with the other ( Photoshop, InDesign and Dreamweaver) applications I use better than Corel.

If I can get this to work, I'll document it and post it here for everyone. If not, I'll use Doug's method; thanks for that Doug!

-Shane

[David Fairfield]

Hi Shane

I hear you about Adobe Illustrator. Its the industry standard for graphic arts and is a pleasure to use. As I've said elsewhere on this forum, using Corel is like using Adobe with a sinus headache. I still can't figure out why Corel is the industry standard for lasers. :confused:

One thing I should make clear. When drawing a vector cut line around the permiter of the work, I mean draw a rectangle, close up to the edge of the document. Its like a fence to "show" the laser where the work area is and keep it from straying.

So if you are drawing a banana on a 5 x 10 document don't draw a line around the banana, just make a rounded rectangle about 4.5" x 9.5" and center it within the document borders. If you have vector sorting mode on, it will be the last thing the laser cuts, so you can just hit stop and reload the materials without waiting for the border cut to be completed.

Other things that can potentially cause software conflicts with AI and the laser print driver: if you have stray marks outside the document borders they must be removed. Unlock everything and use the "select all" button in the layers palette to see if you left anything invisible you forgot about. I always use Adobe's document cleanup feature, to be sure.

Also, it probably goes without saying but your drawing needs to be entirely within the document, nothing going over a border.

Its very important to keep an eye on things while the laser is doing the first run of any AI document. That wierd unwanted vectoring will damage your material and can (IMHO) potentially damage the laser if these software conflicts screw up its ability to stop a motor when it reached the end of travel on an axis. I'm not saying it does happen, just saying its something you definitely dont want to find out!

Note that the unwanted vectoring is not random, because it will repeat itself exactly, every time the document is run, unless corrections are made. On the other hand if it ran right, you're good on all the following runs.

If you're careful about these formatting issues, I am certain your Epilog will run AI problem free. Get back to me if youre still having a problem and I will try to work it out with you!

Dave

[Doug Griffith]

Thanks Dave for the techniques, I'll try them out.

I've cut thousands of items using the vector only driver without one glitch. If there isn't any raster, it's the way to go without additional work or worries.

Re: "I still can't figure out why Corel is the industry standard for lasers."
Because it was cheap and did what it needed to do. It was also the bain of service bureaus and printshops because of printing and font issues. Adobe's creation of Postscript helped alot in getting their products adopted by professionals. When PS was made public, all changed and interface, features, etc... became the driving force behind software. Too late for Corel because Adobe was already embedded. Just my observations.

Cheers

[David Fairfield]

Ah, interesting about how Corel went mainstream! Cheap and works on the PC, I think AI was exclusively Mac for a while? I now use AI only on my PC (works just as smoothly despite what Mac fanatics say).

Does anyone here run a laser off a Mac? I won't ever buy a Mac again, I'm just curious if its possible.

When I first got the my laser, I did what Shane was doing, opened my AI documents in Corel. An unnecessary step and if I had to make any changes it was a real nuisance to do it in Corel.

Then I started printing off Adobe, always separating the vector and raster layers and selecting the "vector only" or "raster only" in the print driver. So it was two separate jobs on the same piece of material. Again, an unnecessary time waster.

That did work most of the time. I still had problems with a particular sheet of repetitive small parts which were vector only.

But the careful fomatting, "vector fence" and clean up measures solve all the software conflicts, and aren't really any extra work because they become second nature after a while.

I hope the Epilog tech guys are listening to this discussion. When I got the laser, they did inform me that it was optmized for Corel, and that I may experience some issues using Adobe. Although they weren't able to be specific at that time, they did give me a really helpful tip that it had something to do with the way that Adobe formats its documents, so I worked it out from there. :)

Dave

[David Brasfield]

Hi, David!

Good name :)

I personally hate CS3 and X3 because neither one of them do what I want to do in any reasonable fashion.

I am quickly becoming a whiz at getting X3 to do mechanical things. I don't have a lot of choice. In all honesty, my experience in getting mechanical parts lasered, has been far easier than in AI and I had zero experience with X3 just a few weeks ago.

I will STILL give real money for a decent cad program that will do the artsy stuff for the laser as well as the mechanical.

Yesterday, the wife has an idea for a new clock. No problem. She did the art, and I had it ready to mount the movement in it in about 45 minutes, and best of all, we can make a bunch more just like it. It even sported little divots at precise locations for positioning the numbers.

I learned how to mass produce numbers a couple of weeks ago. They are handy for some types of clocks.

In the past two weeks, I have turned out over a dozen new designs, and we have wholesalers wanting more.

We haven't sleep much lately, but that happens with a steep learning curve. Been there many times.

The reason I told you all that is in hopes that you will give it a chance if you can stand it. My firsts posts here were basic bitch fests about Corel. It still sucks, but the hill is finally flattening out.

As for the Macs, I own a Mac Pro dual quad, and a G5 with dual power PC's. I own 7 operational winders machines of various flavors and power. One I use just for lightning detection program and weather collection. One to run the ShopBot. One upstairs in the shop to do touch-ups on work before we send it to the laser or the ShopBot. There are the remnants of 3 machines of unknown condition sitting on the floor. I figured I would experiment with etching computer cases with those before I toss them. My wife uses one just for PaintShop Pro (although she loves her Mac - old habits). It is about dead and there is a new one sitting beside it waiting on me to sync them up and switch. I still have an old one that is sitting for archival purposes.

The only thing I do on a windows box is programs that will only run on windows, and since Parallels and VM is working great, those programs will end up on my Mac anyway.

It isn't personal, I used to hate Macs because of the operating system (same reason I hate windows). When Apple switched to unix, I started buying stock. One thing is for certain. From a stability point of view, BSD based unix is dead stable. Man am I glad I bought Apple stock. I just wish I hadn't bought commercial bank stock....

All the best,
David

[sarah ridgley]

hello, i want to join this discussion! I too am trying to use illustrator and having problems. for me, this issue is that the laser "randomly" skips paths. for example, if I make a design with the pen tool and then close it, it will leave off the last path. is this a simple fix or complex??
thanks
Sarah

[David Fairfield]

Hi Sarah

Welcome to this forum. What sort of lasering are you doing?

If its a matter of the laser not cutting a particular line or segment, as opposed to meandering around your drawing making stray burns, then that seems different from what I experienced. But I did experience some cases when the laser would just stop before the job was finished and return to the home position as if it had completed the job. That was solved with the formatting as above.

First, you ought to call tech support and see what they might tell you.

As far as AI goes, the obvious thing to check is make sure the line is set for .001" width, an its within the perimiters of your document. Then go through and check all the formatting as described above and make sure your dimensions and orientation is dialed in correctly before hitting print.

A funny thing I noticed when I was going the trial and error phase of working out software conflicts, sometimes (and only sometimes) if you rotate a drawing 90 degrees, the laser will burn it perfectly without any trouble. :rolleyes:

HTH
Dave

[Doug Griffith]

Ah, interesting about how Corel went mainstream! Cheap and works on the PC, I think AI was exclusively Mac for a while?

AI wasn't widely available on the PC until version 4. Even then it was a stripped down version of what Mac users had. Another reason why CorelDraw got a foothold in the PC market.

I use AI on both platforms and they are the same now except for key commands.

Cheers

[Roy Brewer]

...I still can't figure out why Corel is the industry standard for lasers. :confused:...Dave,

I'm sure that after unbiased readers complete this thread they will all jump at the chance run their lasers with Illustrator. Sorry for the lack of sensitivity, but this is the funniest thread I have ever seen on our forum.

Jeanette:
Please print out this thread; I've got to have this for our seminar this week end.

[David Fairfield]

Hi Roy

Yeah, its downright hilarious when the hardware you distrubute has multiple software conflicts with the standard graphics program that any $65 printer can handle out of the box.

Nevermind the wasted time and ruined materials, I'm just glad the people trying to work around the problems provided you with some cheap-shot jokes for your seminar.

Dave

[Doug Griffith]

I'm sure that after unbiased readers complete this thread they will all jump at the chance run their lasers with Illustrator. Sorry for the lack of sensitivity, but this is the funniest thread I have ever seen on our forum.

I don't see the humor in helping others solve software problems they are having. Some of us have been working with Adobe Illustrator since day one and know it like the back of our hands. Why should we have to learn or invest in CorelDraw because hardware manufacturers are too cheap or lazy to code their drivers for software that is heavily embedded in the graphics industry. If anything, the hacks AI users have to do should be embarassing for the hardware manufacturers. How hard is it to follow a path? Even cheapo vinyl cutters can do it.

Maybe I've taken this wrong and the humor is pointed at the manufacturers.

[Roy Brewer]

Dave & Doug,

I really stepped in it didn't I? My post was an attempt to explain why purveyors of laser systems continue to strongly recommend CorelDRAW. Not necessarily because it is the most powerful, the most widely used or even because we like it, but because it doesn't require all the workarounds necessary by several market leading programs (including but not limited to AutoCAD & Illustrator).

I love the "headache" analogy to describe the pain of running a software package with which I am not familiar compared to the one I know "like the back of my hand." Unless it's patented or copyrighted, I'll use that a lot in the future.

Much more important, this thread has already become the definitive guide to "Running a laser with Illustrator" and I suspect will become a "clearinghouse" for additional solutions as well as solutions to future issues.

While I can see how that was interpreted, the use of the thread in my seminar was not for humor. Any question/answer session always spawns the question "can I run my laser with Illustrator," I can now say "yes, here's how."

[Doug Griffith]

Roy, I don't think you stepped in it. You just grazed it with your foot.

Re:
"Not necessarily because it is the most powerful, the most widely used or even because we like it, but because it doesn't require all the workarounds necessary by several market leading programs (including but not limited to AutoCAD & Illustrator)."

I see it differently. The hardware manufacturers are also responsible for developing the drivers that go with. The "workarounds" are needed by third party programs (ie. AutoCAD, AI) that adhere to industry printing standards (ie. Postscript). The hardware manufacturers should fix their drivers and thus remove the need for "workarounds". I'd say the purveyers are only recommending what the manufacturers recommend themselves.

[David Fairfield]

My post was an attempt to explain why purveyors of laser systems continue to strongly recommend CorelDRAW.

I noticed. However, you put the cart before the horse, Roy. The need for diligence when preparing an .ai file for a laser engraving job says nothing about the quality of either Corel of Adobe. It does say something about the quality of the laser driver programming. The industry can recommend whatever they want, but most of their customers come to them with a definite preference.

because it doesn't require all the workarounds necessary by several market leading programs

The workarounds are simple enough to eliminate them as a factor in choosing Corel over Adobe. On the other hand, figuring them out is an unnecessary problem that should not be left to laser purchasers to deal with on their own. Printing Adobe files should at least be explained in the laser's user manual, if the manufactuer is unwilling to provide drivers that work interchangably with Adobe and Corel. Given that this isn't the case, I get the feeling some people in the laser business are out to make money pushing Corel.

While I can see how that was interpreted, the use of the thread in my seminar was not for humor. Any question/answer session always spawns the question "can I run my laser with Illustrator," I can now say "yes, here's how."

I'm glad I could help give them a definite answer.

Dave

[Roy Brewer]

The hardware manufacturers are also responsible for developing the drivers that go with. Dave,
To give you and any other Epilog owners that use Illustrator/aCADD a "heads up" that a, as yet unannounced, Print Driver is on the Epilog web site that addresses many of the aggravations you've experienced.

Additionally, the new print driver has a checkbox for cutter path optimization that provides an enormous improvement in productivity.

All on Epilog's automatic driver notification list will be alerted to this driver next week. I'm just giving creekers a weekend to see if they can break it before it is offered to the public.

[Chris J Drew]

It kinda grates that someone who already uses Illustrator should feel forced to even consider buying/learning Corel just because they bought a laser, or be faced with clunky "workarounds".
Hopefully the new Epilog driver will sort this out - for Epilog users at least! ( I just started playing with it! )

But one must bear in mind that ( certainly in the UK ) many people buy a laser machine without first already using/owning what to them is "high-end" design software.

Corel is cheaper than Illustrator & isn't crammed with features that your average laser user won't even need, and the learning-curve is nowhere near as steep for new users. It imports a myriad of filetypes & so is an effective way of running a laser with predictable results, irrespective of how the artwork is originally created.

As for "Corel Vs. Illustrator"...
I started using both packages around the same time, coming from a background knowledge of 3D modelling software.
I personally prefer Corel, the pen tool alone puts Illustrator's to shame, but it's down to personal preferance & more importantly what you're familiar with.
I've installed lasers for customers who use both and neither.
It's like the "Mac Vs PC" thing, ie boring but funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PADkpyVWAwQ
^(warning, contains profanity)

No-one would disagree that improved functionality & support for users of Illustrator/AutoCAD/Freehand etc is long overdue & most welcome.