Laser tattoos

[Dan Hintz]

Well, not really, just some idiotic kid holding his hand in the machine and burning his epidermis...
http://blip.tv/file/1040742/

I do wonder, however, if he laid down some Thermark or an ink of some sort if the mark would be more permanent... :confused:

[Scott Shepherd]

Idiots.

Simply idiots.

As someone who's seen more industrial accidents than I wish I could remember, this almost makes me sick to watch. What's the long term consequence of this? Nothing? Skin Cancer 15 years from now? It's unknown and just plain stupid.

Machines, lasers included, are not toys.

[Paul Brinkmeyer]

But but but, I've seen some of the robots I use to buy and install on our lathes in amusment parks giving rides now. What do you mean, not toys!

[andy blackett]

That is truly stupid!! I've joked with the lads at work saying if they didnt behave etc but I never honestly anyone would be stupid enough to do it!!

[Darren Null]

I've been approached a couple of times on this subject. I've turned them down because the only thing I have to calibrate the settings on is me, and I don't fancy it much. I've always avoided holes in my person wherever possible

As far as I can extrapolate, you'd end up with a 'branding' sort of look...I'm not sure that any ink would take because you're cauterising the wound at the same time...as I understand tattooing, it works because you're getting the ink through the dead skin and into live flesh. If it's been lasered, it's no longer alive.
People do brand themselves with branding irons and do all sorts of things to themselves:
http://www.bmezine.com/
(NOTE: Link NSFW and only for the strong of stomach)

If people are muppets enough to want it done, I'm sure you could do some amazing stuff with a laser engraver. The two main problems would be
1) Keeping the subject still enough while the laser is doing it's thing...an involuntary twitch would wreck the design
2) Focus. The human body is rounded and there's only a limited depth of field on the laser.

The kid in the video is still an idiot though- all doors open and no goggles. Muppet.

[Mike Mackenzie]

I wonder what epilog thinks about people using there system this way. It probably isn't a good advertisement.

[Kim Vellore]

I have mixed feelings about this, The beam is IR so there is no harmful effects of radiation like cancer, like with UV exposure.
The hazards I could think of is
1) Burns to the flesh and if it hits the eye you could get some damage to the eye or even go blind.
2) If the auto focus is ON it could hurt your hand.
3) Fire hazard- a stray beam hitting the wood roof and burn the place.
For burning I am not sure how deep a burn a 10-25 watts can cause on flesh considering someone tolerates it. One could check on a piece of meat, but with the flesh consistency it cant go deep with IR.

Having said all this it is a lot less risky than bungee jumping or real tattooing or other extreme things the kids are willing to try and think about it these kids are learning to draw, use the laser, video tape, posting on the net etc. From what I have seen many teens do nowadays I think this might be a good thing just need to educate them a little more on safety and use of safety glasses. I would like to see how they will come up with solving the problem of tattooing parts of the body that cannot fit in. Just my extreme side of 2C.

Kim

[James Stokes]

I have a class 4 open bed laser. In a previous life I was a tile setter. I got a sliver of tile in my knee. The skin grew around the tile. I tried to dig it out with a needle but never could manage to get it out. Sometimes after working on a concrete floor it would swell and get VERY tender. One day when it was bothering me I went out to the laser and put my leg up and started to laser away. I lasered it about half way down before I quit. I did not get the sliver out but I have never had any more problems. It did not leave any scar at all.

[Darren Null]

With pass-through doors, there's almost no part of the body you can't get access to assuming a relatively thin customer. Sides would be tricky or impossible, depending on the depth the bed goes down to, but front/back/limbs should all be accessible. Operator observing through the (closed) top door and customer wearing goggles would be the way to do things. And either manual focus or autofocus (with one hand on the off switch) and move the probe out of the way before you burn. You would also have to think before focusing to avoid snapping bits of your customer off. Also, you would need to make support stands either side of the machine to take most of the weight of your customer.

There's no risk of AIDS and -assuming you splot some antiseptic burn cream on afterwards- the risk of infection would be pretty minimal.

[Robert Ray]

I seen this video on hardocp.com this morning, it's linked all over the web now.

I agree with Kim, not really harmful to the skin. Probably tuned the power to a point where the image don't eat through a piece of paper.

The wavelength is so large, that the radiation only does it's work on the surface. Lower chance of cancer than if it was a deep UV laser, like ones I used to work with. the bluer the beam the deeper the radiation can penetrate.

Now when the kid was looking in at the laser doing it's job, he was at risk of getting flashed! That will have him seeing stars for a while!

It sure freaked me out when I seen it this morning, but a bunch of the PhD types were talking it down as just a kid trying to make a shock video, but not really harmful.

[Rags Alan Ragland]

Lasers are used routinely to remove ink tattoos, and they do leave a scar, but it heals and for some types of skin looks like a brand others just a rash scar. The real proble is that if it is done over a motor nerve the nerve is gone permanently. Ie; no movement. Sensory nerves next to the skin may grow back but motor nerves will not.
Dumb-Dumb-Dumb
Dr. Rags

[Larry Bratton]

Well, could we personalize the steaks for the 4th BBQ??????? Gonna laser my name on a nice sirloin. I'll report the results!

Of course you gents from outside the USA don't celebrate it..but HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY everybody!

[James Stokes]

I have taken frozen steaks and lasered company logos on them for a fancy dinner party. It worked real well.

[Allan Wright]

Getting off-topic, but I've always wanted to make some toast then laser the face of (insert your god of choice here) onto it.

[Dan Hintz]

3) Fire hazard- a stray beam hitting the wood roof and burn the place
Not a hazard... the beam is so out of focus by the time it's a foot or more away from your machine as to have way too little energy to start a fire, particularly when moving.

[Angus Hines]

Inquiring Minds had to know.

The settings for boneless chicken breast are 50 speed at 100% power on a 65 watt machine.

[Robert Ray]

That's funny! And by coincidence, when we went through our Laser Safety class to gain access to the LSA area (Laser Spike Anneal), we had to watch a video of the dangers of the CO2 laser.

One of the things they showed us was the effects of a 5000W CO2 laser on a chicken, for a 1 second burn.

It burned about 1/2" hole 1/2" deep, and the meat was cooked white for about 1/4" around the hole. It was not really round, but a kind of pyramid shaped hole.

-Robert Ray

[Larry Bratton]

That's funny! And by coincidence, when we went through our Laser Safety class to gain access to the LSA area (Laser Spike Anneal), we had to watch a video of the dangers of the CO2 laser.

One of the things they showed us was the effects of a 5000W CO2 laser on a chicken, for a 1 second burn.

It burned about 1/2" hole 1/2" deep, and the meat was cooked white for about 1/4" around the hole. It was not really round, but a kind of pyramid shaped hole.

-Robert Ray
5000 Watts!!!! That's a weapon. I bet that bad boy could cut some acrylic letters out instantly, huh? I suspect it would be considerably faster than my puny little 40 watt. :)

[Darren Null]

I want two! To mount on my car!

[Robert Ray]

At my day job, we use the 3500 watt CO2 lasers for processing semiconductor wafers. The beam is about 12mm wide before we focus it. After focusing, it is .125mm wide, and very powerful. I have literally shaved thin layers of silicon off the top surface of a wafer with it.

Imagine glass as thin as a light bulb, shaved to layers as thin as 1/10 a sheet of paper! We call it "Slip" where the crystal structure inverts, and "slips" off the surface of the wafer.


I don't think it would make a good tattoo though! :D



-Robert Ray

[Jeanette Brewer]

I wonder what epilog thinks about people using there system this way. It probably isn't a good advertisement.


Just in case that wasn't a rhetorical question, here is what Epilog thinks about laser tattoos:

By now you have probably seen the video showing a young man “tattooing” himself with a laser system.

Be advised that Epilog absolutely does not approve of this practice.

The use of one of our lasers on human skin is not an approved use of the equipment, and everyone working with or for Epilog is to do everything within their power to discourage this dangerous activity.

Anyone calling in for more information should be told that this practice is exceptionally dangerous, is not condoned by Epilog and or/ Epilog associates and may be illegal depending on local regulations.

Please make sure that all your associates and / or agents understand our position regarding this serious matter.

[Gary Hair]

What's the long term consequence of this? Nothing? Skin Cancer 15 years from now? It's unknown and just plain stupid.

Considering surgery is done every day using laser, tattoo removal is done with laser, hair removal too, I don't think there is much chance of long term consequences.

I think there are many things that kids are doing that are way more dangerous than this.

Gary

[Scott Shepherd]

Considering surgery is done every day using laser, tattoo removal is done with laser, hair removal too, I don't think there is much chance of long term consequences.

I think there are many things that kids are doing that are way more dangerous than this.

Gary

Right, and last time I checked, they are being done by trained professionals on machines that cost about $100,000, which are all approved for medical use. There are things that professionals will not laser over, because of certain skin conditions. None of that's considered when some moron sticks his arm in a laser.

Kids do a lot of stupid things, no question.

[Dan Hintz]

Meh... it's not as apocolyptic as people make it out to be... stupid, but not that big of a deal. Those $100k lasers have been approved for medical use because they passed some tests... making sure they won't electrocute the patient/operator, plastic casing will allow cleaning with chemicals to prevent bacterial growth, limiting output power, etc. From the lasing standpoint, those machines are no different than the medical lasers. In fact, open up most of those $100k medical lasers and you'll find <gasp> a glass tube CO2 laser.

The kid may laser over a dark mole and get a burn, but that's about the extent of it. As long as he sets the power correctly, it's no different than the medical versions.

[Scott Shepherd]

I don't think it's apocolyptic, I just think it's stupid.

[Darren Null]

In a world where a company can get sued for millions for somebody dropping a coffee into their own lap, Epilog have to say disapproving things no matter what the actual level of risk is.

As far as I see it the *actual* risks are:
1) Blinding yourself- To me that was the most stupid thing the kid was doing- yes, the odds were fairly against him getting a bad bounce of enough severity to cause blindness, but what a penalty to pay if it did go wrong. I'm pretty disappointed that the Epilog disclaimer didn't mention goggles.
2) Drilling through a motor nerve. Don't know how much risk there is of this- depends where on the body and how hard you're lasering. Anywhere near the spine would be a bad idea, I should think.
3) Snapping a bone getting it caught in the table while focussing. A little thought would minimise the risk of this.
4) Burns. But that's sort of the point. Anyway, it'll heal.
5) *Maybe* lasering over a mole and maybe increasing chances of a skin cancer in X years time. My money would be against this though- you're not warming up the nucleus of a cell subtly to tweak the DNA...you're frying the whole thing. I could be wrong there though.

[Tom Majewski]

Any sissyboy can endure raster at 50/20....
A real man would have done vector at .5/90

[Bill Cunningham]

Hmmm a lot of kids want laser etching on their i-phones and i-pods, the next step for personal etching was bound to be i-diots !