Flat block plane blade essential?

I just received an old Stanley 9 1/2 block plane with the Knuckle cap design (circa 1920s). Pretty awesome design to say the least.

Anyway, the blade is rather thin and bent :-(

Should I just get one of those nice PM-V11 blades from LV or just source a used one locally? It just seems like such a nice plane.

I also bought a 1950s 9 1/2 with the normal twist cap design. That blade is also a bit bent (concave) but not as bad as the older model. It's also a bit thicker.

Is this also a candidate for a new blade?

Cheers

I've only had three vintage block planes, so my comments can be tempered by that. All three of them had soft irons. Whether or not the bend matters is easier to tell by use than it is by speculation.

Any modern replacement iron is going to be harder (maybe with the exception of LV 01 irons that are just a hair softer than the A2 irons floating around) and better, it's your choice where you go to get one and how much you spend. I haven't yet heard anyone who didn't like the V11 stuff.

I haven't replaced either of the irons in the vintage planes I still have, though, They work well enough and in the rare case that I've used them on furniture, it hasn't been to make smoother shavings or to look at the structure of the shavings coming off of endgrain (which is easier to cut quickly and squarely to a line with a sharp bench plane when there is an appreciable amount, anyway). I do appreciate the modern irons on a smoother, if you like to finish straight off the smoother, they're worth the trouble to order, prepare and sharpen. If you just use your block plane tons for something other than coarse planing to a line or easing edges, then they might be worth it for you.

Have you tried it yet? I have an old Bailey Jack plane with an original blade that is thinner than the nice Hock's or PMV11's I've bought. I'll be darned, though, if it doesn't perform for a champ. That thing takes a licking and still performs well. My point is, you don't know until you start using it. If you can't make nice hay with it and find yourself spending too long sharpening or flattening it, then I'd throw in the towel and get a new blade.

On the other hand, new block plane blades are relatively cheap...

Thanks David. I'll give them a workout and then decide.

When used blades came up for sale in my travel I tended to buy them. Now there are a few in my shop for my #65 & 65-1/2 planes. I used to just swap them out when they got dull. Haven't done that in awhile.

What others say is using as is first is good advice. If you can pick up some used ones locally inexpensively, it is also a good idea. If the money is available to purchase a pair of new premium blades, that may be the best of all worlds.

Having two planes that are virtually the same can be a great asset. For me, one is usually set for a fine shaving and one is set for a heavy shaving. That cuts down on the constant need to reset the blade. Just keeping straight which is which can be a challenge.

jtk

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Originally Posted by Hilton Ralphs

I just received an old Stanley 9 1/2 block plane with the Knuckle cap design (circa 1920s). Pretty awesome design to say the least.

Anyway, the blade is rather thin and bent :-(

Should I just get one of those nice PM-V11 blades from LV or just source a used one locally? It just seems like such a nice plane.

I also bought a 1950s 9 1/2 with the normal twist cap design. That blade is also a bit bent (concave) but not as bad as the older model. It's also a bit thicker.

Is this also a candidate for a new blade?

Cheers

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Be aware that newer blades, ones that have adjuster slots cut by laser, may not work well with the knuckle cap. The "foot" of the knuckle cap tends to hang up in the little slots making adjustment impossible. We still make a few of the old style, with machined grooves in the back for adjustment, and keep them in stock just for this application. They're not on the website so you'll have to call in an order.

To be technical, if it's got a knuckle joint cap, it's a No. 18, not at 9-1/2.

Bill is correct, if it's a standard angle Stanley block plane with a knuckle cap, it's most likely a #18.

I have a #18 with a modern blade, one of those with the slots cut all the way through. I never had any problem with the foot of the knuckle cap catching in the slots. If the cap on your plane did catch, it would be easy to round over the back of the foot. I didn't have to do that, however. The foot is wider than the slots so it just rides over the slots.

See the picture for how the foot rides on the blade.
Attachment 265180

I really like knuckle joint cap block planes and have quite a few.

Mike

[Added note: I got one the the new PM-V11 replacement blades and have been very happy with it. I think it's in one of my #65 planes and not in this #18, however. Putting a modern blade in an older block plane is one of the best upgrades you can do. I had an older plane with an original blade and just could not get it to cut end grain (properly). I finally bit the bullet and got a modern blade for it - made a world of difference.]

I have a Stanley #60 - while there's no knuckle cap foot to get caught, the "modern" blade with the through rather than milled slots I tossed in there (an LV blade if I remember correctly) does cause issues - the rotary-cam-type thing that creates the tension on the lever-cap-thing gets caught up on the slots.

Good to know Hock offers a solution here - I thought Lie Nielsen was my only option, but I don't see them on the website anymore.

I actually had the oppposite problem with my SW-era plane blade in my block than any of my other plane blades - rather than being too soft, it's a bit hard, and chips out something ridiculous, even at large angles.

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Originally Posted by Ron Hock

Be aware that newer blades, ones that have adjuster slots cut by laser, may not work well with the knuckle cap. The "foot" of the knuckle cap tends to hang up in the little slots making adjustment impossible. We still make a few of the old style, with machined grooves in the back for adjustment, and keep them in stock just for this application. They're not on the website so you'll have to call in an order.

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Thanks Ron for this information. I will look and see what else I need and send you an email as calling from here is expensive. I've also just recently bought your Perfect Edge book and am loving it, so thanks for this.

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Originally Posted by Bill Houghton

To be technical, if it's got a knuckle joint cap, it's a No. 18, not at 9-1/2.

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How doff of me to miss that, thanks for the up and up.

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Originally Posted by Mike Henderson

If the cap on your plane did catch, it would be easy to round over the back of the foot. I didn't have to do that, however. The foot is wider than the slots so it just rides over the slots.

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Interesting Mike, thanks. I may just get a new PM-V11 blade for the #9╜ and see if that works on the #18.

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Originally Posted by Joshua Pierce

Good to know Hock offers a solution here - I thought Lie Nielsen was my only option, but I don't see them on the website anymore.

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Guess this is what makes this forum pretty special.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joshua Pierce

I have a Stanley #60 - while there's no knuckle cap foot to get caught, the "modern" blade with the through rather than milled slots I tossed in there (an LV blade if I remember correctly) does cause issues - the rotary-cam-type thing that creates the tension on the lever-cap-thing gets caught up on the slots.

Good to know Hock offers a solution here - I thought Lie Nielsen was my only option, but I don't see them on the website anymore.

I actually had the oppposite problem with my SW-era plane blade in my block than any of my other plane blades - rather than being too soft, it's a bit hard, and chips out something ridiculous, even at large angles.

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Your #60 should work with through slots blade. There are round foot that are flat and bigger than the slot that should clamp the blade down without catching on the slots. My #60 is from SW era, too, but it has a round foot and don't have any problem with through slot Hock A2 blade.

I'll have to take a picture at some point - maybe I've got something different - I think it's the smallish peened end of the pin that holds the cam lever bit that's getting hung up . . .

I tried lapping the non-back side of the iron to see if that would help to no avail. It's workable, I just need to be good about getting the cutting depth close before locking the cap.

Attachment 265275Attachment 265276Attachment 265277Attachment 265278 I have had quite a few block planes come through the shop. Not one of them were ever flat, even had a couple with a cambered edge, and a few with a reversed camber. I figure I can get them close to flat, and make sure the bed where they rest on the plane is just as flat as I can get it. Usually have no trouble making smoothers out of most of them.