Is it the process or the product that keeps you doing it?

I've been all over SMC asking a lot a newbie questions; thanks for everyones' patience--you've all been a great help. I wanted to ask a different kind of question.

Before I bought any woodworking tools that your every day DIYer doesn't already have, I bought a lot of books. The one that struck me the most was Peter Korn's "Woodworking Basics." Much more than other books, he emphasizes knowing how to use and maintain hand tools. There are a great many pages devoted to just how to properly sharpen a chisel or plane iron. The reader can very much tell that the activity of woodworking is just as important to him as the finished product. I could see him being the Mr. Miyagi of woodworking instructors.

As he explained how to handcut dovetails, I remembered just how many dovetail jigs I've seen. While I'm sure the jigs work well, I wondered if they cheapened the experience at all? How much more pride would I have in creating a chest of drawers with handcut dovetails vs. spending 10 minutes on it with a router?

I was just wondering if most of the woodworkers here are in it for the process or the product? Probably a bit of both, I'd imagine, but which is more important to you? Given an infinite amount of time, would your prefer to joint a board by hand and only use a bit and brace?

A friend of mine who is an avid hiker has a sign in his office, "if you have the time, everywhere is walking distance." Point is while it is possible we don't always have the time.

You could further break down your question to power tools since for some the use of handtools is the passion.

For most it is a bit of both, getting a better product for the same money or less and having the pride to have done it.

As with most things in life it isn't a destination but a journey.

Joe

Joe summed up my reaction to the question far more eloquently than I could.

I enjoy the whole process including the sanding. As soon as I can afford some quality hand tools and have time to devote to learning them I'll get started with them too. For now, even though I'm retired, I have far too many "end products" to produce. It's the beauty and pride in the end product that inspires me to work with wood, but the whole journey is enjoyable for me.

This is an interesting question and one I raised on another forum a year or two back. I am an unabashed product man. While I enjoy the process to a great degree, for me it is about turning out a nice product that I can take some pride in because I built it and I know it's not a cheapo from the local furniture barn.

When I asked the question, it happened about 50% of the responses went one way and 50% the other. Let's see what transpires at the Creek. :)

A little of both for me. I really enjoy trying and learning new things so I try and do only projects that I find interesting or challenging in some way. If I get a project that is not either I try and do some aspect of it in a different way. The product is what makes it so I can continue to do it. I am not a professional but the family does like to see some return on the time investment in the form of a usable object.

Interesting thread!

I suspect that I'm like a lot of woodworkers in that I started out accumulating and using mostly power tools, but find myself using hand tool more as my skills develop. But, that's because hand tools are, in many cases, the better way to render a quality product. I have zero interest in using hand tools just because of the romanticism of recreating a bygone era.

As for the issue of time, a woodworker that I have a lot of respect and admiration for once wrote that, "you can create fine furniture with only a pocket knife if you have enough time and determination." I don't have that kind of time nor that amount of determination so I use power tools where appropriate and hand tools when they are the better choice.

I still derive a tremendous amount of enjoyment from the process and a lot of satisfaction from a well done product. So, I guess that my response is...both.

Oh definitely the processes.
Let me throw it right back at you this way, since you appear to be book smart and enjoy the "neander" side of woodworking:

Would you prefer to use a computer and the Internet?
Or a good old pen and paper and the US Mail?
Appears you don't mind some modern conveniences.

I was raised a DIY. We did a lot of stuff, Dad and I. We weren't a rich Family, but my childhood held a wealth of learning and doing for ourselves.
I used to be the catcher for the table saw even at the early age of six years old. Since I would sneak into Dad's shop and fool around while he was at work, he set me up my own little bench and hand tools in a corner of the garage.
There are no books that can teach like Father to Son can. :)
And my Sisters (4) are all more mechanically inclined than their husbands are. They can shoot and fish, too. :)

None of the above.

It's the money that keeps me doing it:p

Definitely not the process. What makes me happiest is producing a product efficiently using the best methods and tools I have available. I could care less if it is a medieval hand tool or big hunk of cast iron with a motor attached which gets the job done.

-Steve

For me it's a bit of both, depending on the project and how much time I have. Power tools, I like the end result. Turning and hand tools, I like both the process and the result. It can also be fun to just sketch out an idea.

When I banged up my arm last year and couldn't do much, sometimes I'd just go downstairs and sit in the shop and read a magazine. My wife has her chair, reading lamp and little cherry table (made downstairs) to nest in and unwind. I unwind downstairs.

She often catches me "wandering around the shop" when I was sent downstairs to bring up laundry or something else...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gary Herrmann

She often catches me "wandering around the shop" when I was sent downstairs to bring up laundry or something else...

---

Me too :D

As for the question - I guess at this point I enjoy the end product more, because I am still learning the processes, and they can sometimes be frustrating. I can see the day, when I enjoy both equally, after I have gained some more confidence in the process.

Of course if this were posted in the spinning forum, then I'd have to say process just a little more than end product ;)

I'd have to say that it is mainly the process for me - getting out in the shop and not having to worry about anything else than what I'm working on and just taking in the smells and sounds and all. Very peaceful and good therapy. I'd say that it is also cheaper than a therapist, medication to aleviate the symptoms of a stressful life, and such but there are certainly people that would argue that point as it applies to me! :)

But the product also has mean, don't get me wrong. Whether it is something I keep and make use of in my daily life and take pleasure in the fact that it was crafted with my own hands or it is something that is given to someone else and the pleasure in knowing the pleasure it gives them.

"I was just wondering if most of the woodworkers here are in it for the process or the product?"

In my case, it's the product - produced with hand tools. I use hand tools not because I like standing knee-deep in shavings so much, but I do focus on the tools appropriate to the period of furniture that I'm working on. In the case of most of my output, that's 18th century furniture, and there's a significant difference in the appearance of the final product when produced by machine vs. hand methods.

But I'm not an iconoclast. I've plenty of power tools, and it'd be darn close to idiotic to hand-cut thousands of dovetails for a kitchen cabinet project.

But this brings up a good point - because wood is not metal, and tends to move, however slightly, once a part of it has been cut away, I've found that it's quite difficult to make a piece with machine-only methods to high standards without resorting to more stable man-made materials like plywood or mdf. Hand tool usage lets you get away from having to get 0.002" accuracy out of your table saw cuts - it's no longer necessary, because in hand-tool produced furniture, the joints are cut for a specific board and a specific end of that board to fit another particular board - the parts are not interchageable; they are fit to each other.

Moreover, I've found with a bit of practice that I'm far, far faster in dovetailing one drawer by hand with a chisel and a saw than I am setting up my Incra jig, making test cuts, adjusting the fit, etc... This is also true of a lot of other machine operations - they are absolutely superb at making repeated operations consistently and efficiently, but pretty slow at setting up.

I've found this to be true on a macro scale as well - I can produce a small piece, such as a wall cabinet, far faster with hand tools than I can with power tools, assuming I'm only making one. If I were making a dozen, there'd be no contest - the machines would win by a mile.

Hi,

My path in woodworking has lead me from a beginner sweating it out in the garage with few handtools, to working in the custom furniture business and the small production business.

Now I've got a modest basement shop with stationary power tools that I don't use much. I've made a choice to work with handtools as much as I can. I think you need to have regard for the process whatever your approach is.

If you're working with wood and cutting tools, you need to respect the properties of the wood. Thickness planers and shapers are blind to grain direction, but the guys feeding them better not be. And jointers and tablesaws need to be "fettled" to keep them working properly. Sharpening relies on someone giving precise instructions to the guy grinding the carbide bits and blades if you're going to get the best results. Try working in a shop where nobody pays attention to these things and you'll be working in a shop that's going to fail. Or where people get hurt.

The fact you've got to make a buck in the commercial shop to continue playing, doesn't mean there's no respect for the process. The results are key to success, but you can't produce good results without someone paying attention to the process. It might not look like it to a casual observer, but it's there.

I'm back enjoying being the guy who controls all the processes in my own little world. I don't have a clock on the wall in my shop. I can meander and fiddle around -- but I'm aware it's a luxury. But that's what hobbies are -- getting immersed in the process without any need to turn a profit. So, whichever path you choose, you'd better be aware of the processes if you want to have success - either personal or financial (or both).

[stepping off of soapbox]

Ian

I have to say both. I enjoy the challenge of figuring out the design and making the project. I also enjoy using them or delivering them to their owners, whether that is my house or someone else's.

For me at the moment woodworking is theraputic. I have to think a lot at work and mistakes can be costly both in monetary and reputation terms. Getting in the shop and making something is relaxing and uses a different set of brain waves.

While I use a lot of power tools, you just can't beat a good sharp chisel for cleaning up a dado or otehr joint face and a good sharp hand plane can take the edge off a cabinet corner in just a few strokes a lot more uniformly than sand paper will. Once I learded to sharpen the hand tools so the worked instead of making me work we got along a lot better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jeff begin

I've been all over SMC asking a lot a newbie questions; thanks for everyones' patience--you've all been a great help. I wanted to ask a different kind of question.

Before I bought any woodworking tools that your every day DIYer doesn't already have, I bought a lot of books. The one that struck me the most was Peter Korn's "Woodworking Basics." Much more than other books, he emphasizes knowing how to use and maintain hand tools. There are a great many pages devoted to just how to properly sharpen a chisel or plane iron. The reader can very much tell that the activity of woodworking is just as important to him as the finished product. I could see him being the Mr. Miyagi of woodworking instructors.

As he explained how to handcut dovetails, I remembered just how many dovetail jigs I've seen. While I'm sure the jigs work well, I wondered if they cheapened the experience at all? How much more pride would I have in creating a chest of drawers with handcut dovetails vs. spending 10 minutes on it with a router?

I was just wondering if most of the woodworkers here are in it for the process or the product? Probably a bit of both, I'd imagine, but which is more important to you? Given an infinite amount of time, would your prefer to joint a board by hand and only use a bit and brace?

---

In my youth, it was the product. Today it is the process. Clifford.