Printable View
Does anyone know where I can find plans for a log dovetail template or jig? I am looking into building a log cabin, and want to dovetail joint the log ends. I have found a couple of commercial models(high $), but surely a person can construct their own jig out of steel or aluminum. Any info appreciated.
Yes, there are several that I know of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Topp
None are very cheap, and it's worth considering to learn to cut them by hand, as it's not all that hard as folks might think. However, the jig will save you time.
In Montana, there's a guy named Charlie Utzinger, who makes one of the better ones, and his company is Great Northern Dovetailers. I consider this to be one of the better values, but it's not cheap at about $1600-$1800 for the jig and chainsaw. I have his mountain cabin video, it's worth it if you're considering the jig.
Another gent, down in Tennessee, Ed Miller has another system. It's called the EDM Tracer, and cost more than Charlie's jig, and doesn't include a chainsaw, as I recall. The following info is listed for Ed, but the website is not active:
Ed Miller
1952 Riverview Circle, Sevierville, TN 37862-7021
phone: 865-453-2583 fax: 865-453-1634
toll free: 1-800-282-4192 USA
email: logbuilder@mindspring.com
website: www.edmiller-logbuilder.com
Antoher one I know about used to be sold by LogSol in Canada, but the guy that invented it was down in the U.S., I can't remember his name, David something-or-other. I don't see it on their website anymore.
I would consider learning to cut them by hand also. While it first appears intimidating, it's really not rocket science. I was considering doing the same, but will have a log craftsman do the log work for me and finish the home. I have been planning a Log Home Project for quite some time now. Tim Bullock will build it for me, when I can get some cash togeher.:rolleyes:
Here's an example of the type of dovetail I plan to have done:
http://www.SoftOrchestra.com/images/...il_example.jpg
Those are about 18"-24" faces. That's a home Tim Bullock is building for a lady back in WV, where he opened a second yard last year.
For the jig, I reccomend Charlie Utzinger's, it's about the most reasonable. The video shows how it's done. Remember though, lifting the logs can be a concern, since even a 6"x8" timber that is 30' long is not light. But you already know about that I would guess.;) Those timbers in the above pic would require a crane of some type.
Good luck with your project, wherever it may be, I consider log homes to be one of the greatest examples of woodwork that there is, and one you can live in. Life don't get much cooler than that!:cool:
There is a great deal of information available on building log cabins of all styles. Look for books by W. Ben Hunt; Eric Sloane; and Roy Underhill. Also the Fox Fire series is loaded with info. I'm sure googling will bring up more than you ever wanted to know.
Thank you gentlemen, especially Alan, for the detailed reply. Having seen a picture of one of these jigs on a web site, I can't understand why they are as expensive as they are; they don't appear to be too complicted. The chainsaws we have, being in the timber business. I got a price list from one outfit in Canada today, http://www.silvanatrading.com. They have a jig for 6x6 timbers at $650! Am I missing something here?
Hi Bob. At one time I too was goin gto build a log cabin. I was going to get the logs and have a guy come and cut the dovetails on them for a $2.50 per dovetail. I wasn't going to spend a lot of money and they would be right. Just a thought if someone in your area could provide that service
Reg
Bob,Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Topp
My $0.02, if you have chainsaws already and use them as you're in the timber biz, why not just learn to mark the dovetails and cut them with the chainsaw. You could certainly rig up your own jig, to do the same, but the majority of work is in getting the timbers ready.
B. Allan Mackies book on notches has some pics and shows how to mark a dovetail. Once it's marked, you could cut them fairly easy. I can't comment on why the jigs cost so much money, but there are a couple things that need to be adjustable for the timber being cut and/or have it fit properly over the end. It is not a simple jig to create, you need to do 2 cuts on each side, and they typically have some rails that the chainsaw runs along, as well as some type of contraption to attach rollers or similar to the chainsaw. Like everything else, time is money, materials is money, and you know the rest of the story.
Great Northern Dovetailers looks like their jig would certainly save time, but if you already work with a chainsaw, I think you could gain tremendously by learning how to incorporate the dovetail. It's only a couple cuts. Most log craftsman will cut the dovetails concave after the initial cut, so they will tighten up as the logs settle (with a slick). At least the ones I've talked to.
As far as that style, Charles McRaven's book, The Classic Hewn-Log House kinda describes how to construct one the old traditional appalacian way, but hewns the logs with a broade axe. I think he also cuts the dovetails with a broade axe also. You could use a simple frame/bow saw to cut them by hand also. He does give workshops that are 1 week long, and I had contacted him and got a reply not long ago. McRaven's partner had hurt his knee and I was told they wouldn't offer the workshop until sometime in 2007 again. I was originally enquiring as I wanted to know if McRaven was still offering the workshops...I know he has to be older than me, he's been around the log home industry a long time, and considered one of the authorities on antique log home restoration. Look around McRaven's site for more info about him. You can buy the book from him on his books page also.
I decided that I won't need McRaven's workshop as Tim Bullock offered to let me go and work some on my house when he builds it for me and I then was thinking if I just take a couple weeks vacation and go back there, work on my house with them, that would be like the ultimate workshop.
Even with a jig, which most all craftsmen don't use, there is a good chunk of work if you want to hewn the faces with an adze, and in fact most of the work would be spent there. You could cut a dovetail with a handsaw, but since you have a chainsaw, you could scribe/mark them and make a couple cuts on each side to take the notch out and whola, you'd have yourself a dovetail.
Have you ever cut a dovetail in a furniture joint? Learning that would go a long way to help you understand how the joint works. Most folks use half dovetails on log homes, but the jig which Charlie sells is a full dovetail, so it can be used on both inside and outside corners. With his jig you can build a home, since you can go both ways on the corners. If I remember correctly, the EDM Tracer will allow for that but needs to be changed when switching. I think that might mean it's a half dovetail, not a full. If I remember correctly, the EDM Tracer requires you purchase 2 seperate pieces. It was about $3k for what was needed if memory isn't failing me (and that happens more and more the older I get;-).
Darn if those appalacian guys didn't have some smarts, the way the water shed off the notch to leave the water out of the joint is really slick, IMO. IOW, water drains down and out on both sides so that the water doesn't stay on the logs and cause them to rot. That is the basic problem with the butt & pass method, it leaves ends exposed that water, snow, and other foreign material can form on and cause rotting over time. Sweedish Cope is quite a bit more work, as you probably know.
"5 acres, a mule, and an axe...", that's what much of America was built on in those days. I'm facinated with Cade's Cove and the history through that region. It was tough times tryin' to stay alive in those days...many a folk fell victom to infections and not having modern medical available.
Hope that helps.
That helps a lot, Alan, you're a wealth of info. Good luck on your project!
Bob: Thanks for posting the query, hope you’ve managed to have a pleasant project. Yes, a person can build their own log dovetailing jig or matched pair out of quite a selection of materials, but wood seems to be the logical choice for someone who is already into woodworking and can appreciate that craft.
Alan: Thanks for the great references and your $0.02 reply from which there is a wealth of information; it was worth more! Your reference to Cades Cove didn’t go without notice as well, not just for the living log cabins on display there but because I spend several days a week cycling there in the summer (see ‘Recumbent Trike Tour’ videos on the ‘tube’; lots of Black Bears last year came out more frequently and for longer periods looking for berries & nuts; sometimes a mother and her cubs would stay in a tree overhanging the road for several days without leaving.
Reg: Good point about sub- contracting the notching. If you’re only building a single dwelling without the likelihood of additional log work later, paying someone else to cut the corner notches may very well yield the highest quality for the least amount of money. (And headaches as well I might add). At $2.50 per notch don’t expect to make a living if you’re notching and as a homeowner I’d be concerned about quality. Thus far, nobody has discussed log size or species, but I promise there is no, “One size fits all” for either equipment or labor.
David Combs was the gentleman in Canada who developed the Dream Dovetail Jig. I don’t believe he is still around and the last time I spoke with him he was negotiating with Logosol; looks like it worked! http://www.logosol.ca/in-english/saw...-dovetail-jig/
Fred Beal has some plans available for building a dovetail jig. http://logdovetailjig.com/index.html
Charlie Utzinger and Great Northern Dovetailers still produce their equipment and videos, and have been around longer than the previously mentioned two. http://www.gndovetail.com/works.html
To my knowledge, I’m the only other producer of chain saw related log dovetailing equipment in the world. Unlike the others, my notching concept is not based on the dovetail, but rather on the EDM Tracer chain saw guide which retails for $150-$200 available from a number of log home tool suppliers in the US & Canada. No, it doesn’t include a chain saw, drilled bar, specially ground chain or jig(s), but you only need one to make all the jig-guided cuts on a log home or timberframe structure. By ‘jig guided’ I refer to any cut that has a known measurable pattern from which a pattern can be made. Of course, if you need a chain saw, I can set it up and send it to you but I’d prefer you purchase the brand available near you so servicing and warranty issues can be easily handled. “If you can lay out a dimensioned pattern, have access to quality wood sheet stock and handle woodworking tools………………, you can build a jig!
So, making the wisest choice will probably be determined by cost, quality, durability, notch style, adaptability and resale value. I didn’t post to this thread to sell jigs; Alan already did that for me! But in a gesture of gratitude, if there are others who wish to build their own dovetail notching equipment (out of wood!) I’ll be happy to offer suggestions. There have been almost 12,000 hits on this thread and only a handful of replies?
Check out http://peelinglogs.blogspot.com/search?q=template where the author describes a template and it's use.
WOW!!! Just a six year old thread!
Attachment 222930 Click on picture for larger image.
Here are examples of both the Half Dovetail (Simple) jig pair on the left and a Full Dovetail (Compound) jig on the right, both are for logs up to 6.5” wide and 12.5” tall. The ‘stack height’, or centerline-centerline between log courses is governed by the height of the dovetail pin. In this case, the thickness of the brown faced (Phenolic plastic) ‘wear plates’ is sized according to that desired stack. Each of these examples can handle a range of stacks; 9”-16” for the Half Dovetail jigs, 11”-14” for the Full Dovetail jig.
Some jigs are designed for a specific set of circumstances without ease of future change, while others are designed for long term use and flexibility. It’s not uncommon for a nicely build dovetail jig to still be in service after notching a thousand homes and a throw-a-way site-built jig providing service for a home or two.
All jigs should be compatible with the chain saw such that the saw is not destroying the jig. I started using aluminum marking templates in the 70’s and then a chain saw guide in the 80’s. Quite frankly, I’m not that great at freehand cutting, but can kick-butt with a jig. And unlike having a high-dollar worker who can free-hand cut with a chain saw, a jig won’t take a day off to go hunting, or get drunk on Fridays!