Received an email from Oneida-air about the Wood magazine cyclone test.
http://www.oneida-air.com/inventory.asp?CatId={883C6AA7-4C85-49FD-9EEA-C51D09DC8B19}
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Received an email from Oneida-air about the Wood magazine cyclone test.
http://www.oneida-air.com/inventory.asp?CatId={883C6AA7-4C85-49FD-9EEA-C51D09DC8B19}
Look carefully. Wood magazine stacked the deck. The Oneida is the only 3hp cyclone in the test. The Grizzly was 2.0 hp and the Penn State was a 2.5 hp unit. The others were single stage units with bags or cartridge filters.
I think that Oneida is unfairly capitalizing a bad test. Makes me think twice about what else they mislead customers on
You don't need to buy the magazine to read the article as onieda has it on their website. Looking at the static pressure and cfm it sure looks as though the onieda v series is a big loser compared to the lower horse power grizzly.
Actually the Grizzly outperformed the oneida if you look at the fan curve. They use a 14 amp motor , larger impeller, and bigger inlet so the curve is much better. The noise could likely be nullified with their $50 muffler and is due to impeller configuration. Oneida is without doubt the best made, best motor, and from this test has the best filters. I think the Oneida and Penn state Nanofilters are probably too close in performance to call. Both will outperform a spun bond the way they were testing. Measuring shop air is bound to have some issues but the filters are where the Grizzly falls down. The whole 800 cfm at 5" was the arbitrary decision that allowed the oneida to shine. Had the cfm requirement under pressure been a little higher it would not have shown as well. The cfm was dropping like a rock at that point. Oneida has a quiet efficient impeller design but it suffers under pressure and the 6" inlet on the cyclone does restrict it. The bag systems would have performed much better if the stock ones were replaced with oversized ones. Too much pressure on the fabric causes both leaks and dust being forced through the fabric. The test does show that price point influences all these units. Dave
I have had the V3000 for 2 years and couldn't be happier. It surpassed my highest expectations. I'm using it in a 600 sq ft shop, ducted with 6" PVC and my CFM at each port are more than sufficient for any of my tools. I guess ignorance is bliss ;)
Dick you really hit what is important. Each set up and each machine need certain requirements. If you stay within those boundaries it then becomes more about separation and filters. It's when people try to stretch a too small system too far that trouble really starts. There is no easy fix if you don't get that right. I think Oneida restricts their systems within a narrow range to allow for more models and to be able to fit every buyer. Good marketing. They could juice their 3 hp with a little bigger impeller and cyclone for little extra cost but it would infringe on the other models. Little like GM in the 60s. Lots of choices. DaveQuote:
Originally Posted by Dick Mahany
Dave....."I suspect" is speculation and skepticism....... just a personal opinion not backed by any facts. So what if it allows them to offer more models? That's a bad thing? One could just easily fault them for not offering enough models if the opposite were true. If you want to find some thing to be critical about....you can always speculate. Only the higher powers at Oneida know for sure.
I ordered a 2.5 HP Super Gorilla....due to a temporary shortage of 2.5HP Baldor motors at the time, they delivered a 3 HP Super Gorilla with a Baldor motor and apoligized. I accepted it. I couldn't be happier.
Ken, I was not criticizing Oneida at all. Their 3 hp 1500 would more closely mirror the Grizzly cfm curve so they have a model that will provide a little more cfm with the same motor. They get that with a bigger inlet and more filter area rather than a larger impeller. More comparable to the Grizzly. Costs more. The way the various units were compared was what I was criticizing. I have a stand alone Oneida blower that i used for years. I used it to experiment with different types of impellers. I've bought lots of stuff from them. Like everyone else they have some great stuff and could do some things better. Dave
Dave....please don't take that as a personal attack either as I didn't mean it that way.
As I have gotten older, I have found myself becoming more skeptical about a lot of things. It's seems to so prevalent here at the Creek sometimes and in our society today that people want to be skeptical and attack companies. I will be the first person to criticize a company for failure to perform to an expected level but having worked in customer service and drawing pensions from two very well recognized global corporations, I know the difference between deserved criticism and people blindly attacking companies because of skepticism without any factual basis.
My apologies if you believe I was attacking you. I didn't mean it that way. I was merely stating that being skeptical and "speculating" why a company might do something lacks factual backing. It's an unsupported opinion and little more.
I hear you Ken. In dust collection i also realize that the fear of overloading motors causes companies to be conservative in their impeller sizes as some take off filters and vent outside. That may be another factor here. The speculation about the models seems pretty safe though as they have three to four models in each size range. I think that is good for the consumer. It is speculation though. My only real criticism is they don't offer a high efficiency cyclone with an involute inlet, true neutral vane, and increased impeller to compensate. Sort of the BMW version of their model line. Move the consumer up rather than down.
I've owned a CPA firm for 40 years and i sometimes think I know more about how business thinks than I really do. If we banish unsupported opinion there will be a lot less to read though. Dave
Brian ... ordered my V3000 Feb 1st; received it a month later. I chose it based on lot of research and reading before the Wood Magazine test results were published. I have an ~350 sq ft basement woodshop with basic TS, BS, Lathe, RAS, belt/disc sander combo, router. I have 6" PVC installed right up to each machine with individual 6" blast gates and custom enlarged opening in each machine ... I put the 6" PVC central collection piping in a year ago as an upgrade to the 4" flex hose I had been dragging across my shop floor for years from my Jet DC1100C 1-1/2 hp dust collector. The 6" built-in PVC was indeed much more convenient than dragging 4" hose over the shop floor and I "sensed" that CFM was a bit better than when using the 4" flex duct previously. However, I felt that the 1-1/2 hp Jet was significantly under utilizing the capability of my new 6" PVC central duct system. To check this out, in January I decided to quantify my Jet DC1100C system performance. I instrumented with Pitot Tube and static pressure tap and measured with inclined and U-tube manometers and confirmed that my suction and CFM were marginal at best in both suction and CFM even for my modest sized basement woodshop. So that led me to my researching of higher Hp / impeller diameter dust collectors and my personal choice of the V3000 as a good mix of various features important to me in a new dust collector: fine dust and sawdust collection/separation, small collector footprint, limited noise such that hearing protection unneeded, CFM and suction pressure at my machines sufficient to capture fines and sawdust/chips at the source, robust build quality, demonstrated service after the sale, made in USA a plus. To me, the V3000 had a suitable mix of these features.
My Pitot Tube and suction pressure testing of the newly installed V3000 to date have matched the Wood Magazine fan curve of CFM vs static pressure curve for the V3000 so I believe my system to be performing up to par. The noise is indeed tolerable without hearing protection ... comparable to my previous 1-1/2 hp Jet DC1100C ... and the measured CFM and suction pressures are significantly better than my old Jet DC1100C for each machine. My measured system CFMs are now approaching the Bill Pentz recommended minimum CFM thresholds for fine dust collection at the source.
I made the right choice for my needs.
Tom
Seems to me that almost everything on Sawmill Creek is personal opinion. I would expect no less.
For the record though, the statement that I read from David Kumm's post started with "I think" not "I suspect". Also it finished up with "...to be able to fit every buyer. Good Marketing" That actually sounds like a compliment to me, about that particular company's offerings.
Or am I missing something here that's not in the text?
Yeah ,there is a lot of opinion here. We 're artists...we don't look back.
Using the words " I think" is probably a bigger error than " I suspect". Thinking really slows me down. Dave