G0454 + Shelix or G0454Z?

Hello Creekers,

It has been a while since posting much here, as I have had my woodworking on the back burner the last couple of years due to business and family considerations. Anyway, I am getting ready to jump headlong back into woodworking this winter and I am getting ready to buy a 20" planer to replace my DW735. I have spent the last couple of weeks researching this purchase (actually talked myself up from a 15" to 20" planer in the process) by looking at a lot of old threads on this forum and others. I was pretty convinced that the Grizzly G0454Z was the right machine for me, but then two things gave me pause:

1. There is a lukewarm G0454Z user review on Amazon. Now I know that one user review does not a trend make, but this user had a couple of "complaints" about the Grizzly spiral cutterhead that made me think. The complaint that caught my attention, was that the indexing of the cutterhead blades on this unit were supposedly out of whack. The user claims that once he rotated all of the carbide inserts, "...the little blades left uneven marks on the wood." Have any of you Grizzly spiral cutterhead users out there seen this problem?

2. My G0490 Jointer and my DW735 planer are equipped with Byrd Shelix cutterheads, both of which I installed myself. I have been very pleased with the Shelix cut quality. Now, I have yet to rotate any of the carbide inserts, but I have never heard of any "indexing" issues with the Shelix either. Anyone who has rotated their Shelix carbide inserts had a problem with reduced cut quality afterwards? Anyone out there running both a Shelix and a Grizzly cutterhead?(e.g. jointer and planer) If so, do you notice any difference in the quality of cut?

Both of these issues made me reconsider buying the G0454Z and instead going with the G0454 and then purchasing/installing a Byrd Shelix head in place of the straight blade cutterhead. With Grizzly's current pricing it looks like I could buy the G0454 + Shelix for $40 less than the price of the G0454Z. Of course, I would have to buy bearings for the Shelix and then the time and effort to install, may even have to take the Shelix to a local machine shop to have the bearings pressed on, but given my prior experience installing Shelix heads I think I can handle it. Anyone out there done this conversion that might have some advice or tips to offer?

Thanks,

Clay

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Originally Posted by Clay Crocker

Hello Creekers,

It has been a while since posting much here, as I have had my woodworking on the back burner the last couple of years due to business and family considerations. Anyway, I am getting ready to jump headlong back into woodworking this winter and I am getting ready to buy a 20" planer to replace my DW735. I have spent the last couple of weeks researching this purchase (actually talked myself up from a 15" to 20" planer in the process) by looking at a lot of old threads on this forum and others. I was pretty convinced that the Grizzly G0454Z was the right machine for me, but then two things gave me pause:

1. There is a lukewarm G0454Z user review on Amazon. Now I know that one user review does not a trend make, but this user had a couple of "complaints" about the Grizzly spiral cutterhead that made me think. The complaint that caught my attention, was that the indexing of the cutterhead blades on this unit were supposedly out of whack. The user claims that once he rotated all of the carbide inserts, "...the little blades left uneven marks on the wood." Have any of you Grizzly spiral cutterhead users out there seen this problem?

Clay

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99.99% of the time, the reason this happened is because they used a crappy torque wrench that isn't calibrated properly, or not using a torque wrench at all.

If youdo that, this will happen with either the grizzly head (which will leave uneven line marks), or the shelix head (which will leave uneven scallops)
Put another way, I have used at least 5 of these indexable grizzly cutterheads in various tools, and 3 byrd shelix heads, and i've literally never seen this happen unless the torque on each insert is not the same.

--Dan

Buy the G0454Z and start using the machine shortly after set-up.

Like Dan said, bad technique in rotating the inserts will cause issues. One also needs to make sure there are no specs of sawdust or dirt that fall into the insert cavity before tightening the inserts down. All the cutterheads are tested prior to leaving the factory.

FWW just ran an article on spiral heads you might want to check out.

I recently retro fitted a Power Matic P180 planer with a Byrd cutter head and am totally satisfied.
Now, that being stated, Byrd tends to understate the effort to retro fit a machine. Reality: it took at least ten hours and the use of an arbor press to install the new head. Reality: invest in a good torque wrench and besure all cutters are installed at the same torque even brand new out of the box. Reality: in the event a cutter needs to be rotated or replaced, the cutter and seat on the cutter head must be surgically clean.
I have run mine for about a year now and one of the benifits is a significantly reduce noise level and the finish quality on figured woods is second to none.
John Bunday

Just my 2 cents. If I had a jointer with a byrd shelix then I would go with a byrd shelix in my planer as well. Providing they use the same size inserts. That being said; I had a Shop Fox 1742s and a Powermatic 15HH in my little shop side by side. Both cutter heads do a nice job. No tear out and ever so quiet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clay Crocker

The user claims that once he rotated all of the carbide inserts, "...the little blades left uneven marks on the wood." Have any of you Grizzly spiral cutterhead users out there seen this problem?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daniel Berlin

99.99% of the time, the reason this happened is because they used a crappy torque wrench that isn't calibrated properly, or not using a torque wrench at all.

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I just rotated the inserts on my jointer for the first time after nearly 2 years of use. I had read enough about the pain and suffering that results from taking this task casually. I bought a decent quality torque wrench for about $80. I carefully prepared the area where I would do the work with towels covering everything, plenty of rags, papertowels, compressed air and so forth to keep everything really clean for the inserts and the seats. I placed a drop of oil on the screws as instructed and diligently did everything else that you might be tempted to scrimp on. I was still worried and so did a test run after each row of inserts figuring that if something went afoul, I would only have to locate the problem within that row instead fo searching the whole head for the error . . .

It went perfectly. I am no mechanic so I can only give credit to careful following of the instructions. I had forgotten what the machine cut like when it was knew. Beautiful surfaces and birdseye maple and curly walnut come of it just as slick as straight grained material. When I upgraded my planer I went with the G0453Z. After appropriate setup for the types of materials I use, I couldn't be happier unless it had rubber feed rollers. I too struggled over the Byrd head versus the Griz (although they have 2 Griz options now I think) and was lucky enough to get to talk with a guy who runs one of each in his shop. He stated that he could tell no difference and I have been very happy with the machines.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by glenn bradley

I just rotated the inserts on my jointer for the first time after nearly 2 years of use. I had read enough about the pain and suffering that results from taking this task casually. I bought a decent quality torque wrench for about $80. I carefully prepared the area where I would do the work with towels covering everything, plenty of rags, papertowels, compressed air and so forth to keep everything really clean for the inserts and the seats. I placed a drop of oil on the screws as instructed and diligently did everything else that you might be tempted to scrimp on. I was still worried and so did a test run after each row of inserts figuring that if something went afoul, I would only have to locate the problem within that row instead fo searching the whole head for the error . . .

It went perfectly. I am no mechanic so I can only give credit to careful following of the instructions. I had forgotten what the machine cut like when it was knew. Beautiful surfaces and birdseye maple and curly walnut come of it just as slick as straight grained material. When I upgraded my planer I went with the G0453Z. After appropriate setup for the types of materials I use, I couldn't be happier unless it had rubber feed rollers. I too struggled over the Byrd head versus the Griz (although they have 2 Griz options now I think) and was lucky enough to get to talk with a guy who runs one of each in his shop. He stated that he could tell no difference and I have been very happy with the machines.

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It depends on the machine.
I had a grizzly spiral head and a byrd spiral head on the exact same g0490 (8 inch jointer). Identical new Nachi bearings, etc.
There was a real difference. I had boards that i could not joint at any feed rate/depth of cut on the grizzly without some tearout. I put a few of these boards aside, and then retried on the byrd head, and no tearout.

On the other side, at least on this machine the byrd spiral head *definitely* requires a slower rate of feed than the grizzly spiral head.
As for whether you'll notice the difference between the two , it depends on what you work with.
If all you do is plane red oak and maple all day, you probably won't ever notice a difference between the byrd and the grizz head.

I'm looking at 20" planers and wondering if the Powermatic 5hp with the byrd shelix head is worth the $900.00 difference over the Grizzly go454z. http://www.toolorbit.com/Powermatic/...c-1791315.html

Thanks for all the great postings everyone; even one from the President of the company! It makes sense, as many of you posted, that cut quality issues following an insert rotation would have more to do with poor technique than with any inherent engineering or manufacturing flaw. I spent 13 years working as an industrial ammonia refrigeration mechanic, so I am familiar with the importance of parts cleanliness and proper torque values when dealing with tight tolerances. George, thank you for reminding me about the FWW article, I will go back and review that one. David, I have looked closely at the 209HH, but even at the low price you linked to, I have a hard time moving away from the Grizzly. I am already pushing the limits of my budget after going from the 15" up to the 20"; the Grizzly seems to be the best value. I think in the end, I will probably go with my first instinct and order the G0454Z.

Clay

Get the G0454Z, i have had it for over 2 years, works great. just needed a little adjustment out of the crate, & slight adjustment of the gasket on the gear box (was leaking a little gear oil). i have feed over 1000bf of hardwoods without having to rotate any cutters yet and im still getting a near finish quality cut!

I put a Byrd in my W1741 jointer and have a G0453Z. The Grizzly has been perfect out of the box. I had to take out all of the inserts out of the Byrd and clean and retorque everthing due to unacceptable results. It works great now. I am using a HF in/lb torque wrench.