New (to me) Japanese plane

I, um, I don't know what I was thinking. I was looking for something else on that auction site, and this showed up on the recommended items based on what I was looking at. I had a little bourbon in me, and it was one of those things listed for next to nothing, so I through in a bid, not really thinking I'd get it. Well, I did. I have no idea if I payed too much, but it was less than I'd pay for a name brand replacement iron or a block plane. If nothing else it'll be fun to play with, but I have a nagging feeling it'll be sitting in the tool cabinet for a while before I get to monkeying with it.

I literally haven't done anything with it other than take the iron in and out and chamfer a few edges, take a few strokes. The blade isn't what I'd call "sharp", but it's not crazy dull like some used things I've thrown money at.

I'm actually a little nervous, because just in using it to play around with a hair, something about this eastern plane just feels, dare I say, right? Obviously, the proof is in the actually getting it going and using it for something real for some length.

I doubt it's anything special, but I really have no idea.

oops. pics.

Attachment 285209
Attachment 285216

Dai is kind of attractive in a funky way. Iron fits decently - could be better, but with the chip breaker it's functionally tight and holds well enough for the light work I've tried it with. Right now, I can't get the breaker too close to the edge with the protrusion I'd like. Since the breaker doesn't fit into the abutments, should the iron be a snug fit without the breaker?

Attachment 285217

Some odd markings on the back of the iron and the body - it's almost like it was tapped with a very tiny hammer or something!

Attachment 285210

Funny little marking on the back of the breaker

Attachment 285208
Attachment 285211

Breaker and iron - can't quite tell what sort of shape it's in without hitting the stones. A bit of rust, some pitting on the iron.

Attachment 285212
Attachment 285214

Of course some makers marks, which mean nothing to a an idiot like me!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joshua Pierce

Dai is kind of attractive in a funky way. Iron fits decently - could be better, but with the chip breaker it's functionally tight and holds well enough for the light work I've tried it with. Right now, I can't get the breaker too close to the edge with the protrusion I'd like. Since the breaker doesn't fit into the abutments, should the iron be a snug fit without the breaker?

---

Yes.

If your iron is too loose, glue a thin shim of wood onto the bed of the dai, and then set up the bed as you would if this was a brand new plane. I’ve seen people use a piece of paper or cardboard for this purpose before, but I like using wood, because it’s easier to shape the bed to get a really nice fit.

Here’s a write up that I did that shows you how to do this: http://giantcypress.net/post/50004277654/make-your-bed

Nice looking plane, by the way. Hope you have fun with it.

Thanks, Wilbur. I was curious about that aspect of these types of planes. So really, if things were spot on, it should function as a breaker-less plane, and the breaker should just be able to add some rigidity to the whole ensemble, or help with tearout if I can put the loose breaker in proper place without going past the blade edge, as opposed to being a key part of keeping the blade in place?

Your site is in my bookmarks/regular read list, and I certainly had that write up and other info on you site in mind as I thought about going at this plane. After posting this, my next step was to browse your articles on setting up a new plane. I just dug out my old Metal Circus and New Day Rising records, so I think I've got all the stuff I need for step one.

Need to break out the straight edges and see how out of flat it is - doesn't seem terrible just yet. It's almost a shame to have to touch any of the wood on this, it's got some nice character. All in all, I'm pleased for the small sum I payed out - doesn't seem like I got a total dog, and a brief trip to the stones, just enough to get a feel of the steel, and it seems like the iron was probably worth the price.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joshua Pierce

Thanks, Wilbur. I was curious about that aspect of these types of planes. So really, if things were spot on, it should function as a breaker-less plane, and the breaker should just be able to add some rigidity to the whole ensemble, or help with tearout if I can put the loose breaker in proper place without going past the blade edge, as opposed to being a key part of keeping the blade in place?

---

That’s right. If things are set up right, the plane should be able to function with or without the chipbreaker in place. Ideally, you should be able to tap in the chipbreaker without changing the position of the main blade. When I’m setting up or rehabbing a Japanese plane, I pretty much get it tuned up as much as possible without dealing with the chipbreaker at all. The chipbreaker is the last step.

The rigidity of the whole Japanese plane set up is primarily from the fit of the bed of the plane to the blade.

Hüsker Dü is excellent music to listen to while tuning hand tools in general, not just Japanese planes. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joshua Pierce

...Need to break out the straight edges and see how out of flat it is - doesn't seem terrible just yet. It's almost a shame to have to touch any of the wood on this, it's got some nice character. All in all, I'm pleased for the small sum I payed out - doesn't seem like I got a total dog, and a brief trip to the stones, just enough to get a feel of the steel, and it seems like the iron was probably worth the price.

---

Everything Wilbur said, plus you probably don't want to flatten the sole as such. I don't know if this is something you already know, in which case please ignore; but Japanese smoother soles typically have a slight hollow between the toe and mouth, and a slightly recessed area behind the mouth.

While this may not be the main attraction in this thread, I have to ask... what bourbon were you drinking? :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jack Curtis

Everything Wilbur said, plus you probably don't want to flatten the sole as such. I don't know if this is something you already know, in which case please ignore; but Japanese smoother soles typically have a slight hollow between the toe and mouth, and a slightly recessed area behind the mouth.

---

Good point, Jack. I did actually know that, and it a quick check with a straightedge did seem to confirm that this plane had been conditioned properly in the past, but it's taken a bit of bow and twist to it, and the touch points aren't quite in line. I'm letting it settle down, as it's made it's way over from the west coast to here. I haven't really analyzed it much at all, but it does seem like the area right in front of the mouth has worn a bit - looks like it once was a touch point and no longer is. Certainly not going to just go at lapping it crazily or anything - I need to have a proper look at the current condition before I do anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Schubert

While this may not be the main attraction in this thread, I have to ask... what bourbon were you drinking? :D

---

Nothing fancy - probably the opposite of fancy - I'm usually more of a gin drinker, but for some reason, we had a bit of Wild Turkey 101 in the house. Not where I'd spend my money, but I was surprised by it for the price.

I agree, WT101 isn't my first choice, but it's certainly not bad. I'm always amazed at how many good bourbons there are out there at really affordable prices. But that's another topic altogether... back on track!

The plane looks very interesting. With no handles or noticeable handholds, it's definitely different than a typical western wooden plane. I'm curious how it will perform, once you hone the iron up nice and sharp. Japanese steel can be amazing stuff.

Is it twisted, with the iron set?

The iron wedges pretty tight in a well-set Japanese plane.

I've taken to using two identical levels as straight edges, so I'm not fixated on
a small area that's out of plane. The proof of how well this thing is regulated
is in the planing; if it takes a clean and constant shaving, it's right.

If you're struggling to keep it straight, or it's leaving tracks you may be correct about the wind and twist.

I've seen some really beautiful furniture made with tools much cruder than this.

I honestly haven't really looked at it much at all other than feeling how the dai sits on a flat plate, and how it looks with a quick peek with a straight edge. I didn't check with the iron seated very fully (not that it really seats fully without the chipbreaker in it's current state.

None of the out of true-ness or whatever's going on seems terribly bad.

I'll probably post here again once I get a chance to give it a good look, hopefully tomorrow I get to sharpen up the iron and take some more pictures.

The only other thing I've really noticed since the original post is that the left-hand abutment, (is that right - I think I don't actually mean the abutment, but rather, the slot where the iron seats on the left hand side) is a little "wonky" looking - looks like it was adjusted (somewhat poorly) in the past. I don't think it's anything to worry about much.

Is it common for these irons to taper both in thickness and in width? It seems at first glance that the iron is slightly wider as it moves away from the cutting edge, although I haven't measured it. If this is the case, is this just slight variability, or another way to seat the iron firmly?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joshua Pierce

...The only other thing I've really noticed since the original post is that the left-hand abutment, (is that right - I think I don't actually mean the abutment, but rather, the slot where the iron seats on the left hand side) is a little "wonky" looking - looks like it was adjusted (somewhat poorly) in the past. I don't think it's anything to worry about much.

Is it common for these irons to taper both in thickness and in width? It seems at first glance that the iron is slightly wider as it moves away from the cutting edge, although I haven't measured it. If this is the case, is this just slight variability, or another way to seat the iron firmly?

---

The abutment is very important and you have to be very careful to not deform the upper side of both. If an abutment is mangled, might be a good idea to make a new dai - can always be shimmed for the moment, but long term you'll want it correctly set up.

The irons are usually tapered in width and thickness.

Poor plane has been badly abused. Imagine using a waffle-faced framing hammer on a plane! If the blade won't stay put without the chipbreaker installed, then it has bad problems. Makes me wonder if the dai was originally made to match the blade.

It is standard for the blade to taper in both width and thickness. The width should vary only a tiny bit. A lot of taper in width is a sure sign of poor quality control. Impossible to tell from a picture.

From the photo the only relevant character that is legible is the first one 千 which is pronounced "sen" and means "thousand."　The back of the blade says 井村製, read 'Imura sei" meaning "Imura manufacture." Imura could be a person's name, or the name of a locale. Probably an individual's name, but it might refer to Imura Village in Hokkaido.

It does not look like an expensive plane. But that does not mean it will not cut well when properly sharpened and setup. Good luck.