deck material? Ipe or trex?

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10-16-2005, 12:19 PM
Hal Hanevik

deck material? Ipe or trex?

Not sure if this question belongs here... but don't see anywhere else to ask it, so here goes. I am about to build a patio out back, and will need to build a deck. I will need to get this thing as low as possible (house is on a slab) and will basically need to build the deck on a sleeper system that will be laid on the ground. Swmbo wants the deck material to be out of wood or something like trex. So my basic question is, all things being equal (cost is not a significant concern)... should I use Ipe or some other semi exotic wood or trex for the deck. I only want to do this once, so this is gonna have to last for about 30 to 40 years. Due to extremes in weather out here (high desert of so cal) redwood or cedar are out of the running, and pressure treated material in exposed conditions is not gonna cut it with the wife. So what would you do? Thanks in advance for your input.
10-16-2005, 1:21 PM
Dave Falkenstein

If I had to choose between ipe and Trex, ipe would win, hands down. Trex has the big advantage of being maintenance-free, but it looks like Trex and not like wood. There are several man-made products, including one Trex line, that has a simulated grain pattern, which improves the look somewhat. It all depends on what look you like, but my preference runs to real wood. I don't understand why you ruled out redwood. I have a cabin in Flagstaff, AZ where the sun effects are extreme due to the altitude, and the winter weather can be harsh. Redwood is the most-used choice in those conditions. Redwood does need to be stained periodically too keep it looking good, and I use SuperDeck for that job.
10-16-2005, 1:33 PM
Frank Hagan

1 Attachment(s)

I love wood, but for a deck in the high desert, I would go with Trex or a similar material.

I used Weyerhaeuser's ChoiceDek for my deck in Oxnard because it has an "oatmeal-like" surface texture that never gets slippery (we get fairly wet this close to the ocean). It ages to a soft grey, and the only disadvantage I can see is that it gets dirty. Brushing with a mild detergent takes away most dirt and stains. The pic attached is taken this morning, and it hasn't been cleaned in about 6 months.

The other consideration is the edge treatment. The stuff is heavy, and the manufacturer's try to remove some of the weight by making the stuff hollow or, in the case of ChoiceDek, corregated on the bottom. The edges of a raised deck show the corregations, so you should plan on the deck design hiding the edges.

Otherwise, it works well with regular woodworking tools.
10-16-2005, 1:36 PM
joseph j shields

1 Attachment(s)

Ipe!
I put in an Ipe deck 3 years ago & love it!

Here is the thought process I went through:

Ipe

+ Will last 40+ years
+ Proven material
+ Fire rated
+ Great appearance
+ About the same cost of plastics
- Need to oil the deck once a year

Plastics
+ No maintenance
- Not proven to last 40+ years
- Not natural
- Not as attractive

A few notes on Ipe:
- It is very very very hard wood
- You have 3 ways to attach it:
1. Pre-drill & screw (a lot of work!)
2. Tie systems (Not as much work, but most systems require a wider gap between the boards)
3. Glue & nail (Faster & cleaner look)
- I used glue & nail... here are some details:
  - You can only use this method on 4" wide boards...6" board have too much "pulling & cupping" power for the glue & nails (according to a big Ipe importer http://www.ironwoods.com/)
  - I used PL poly premium construction adhesive
  - For nails... I used 2.5" stainless steel nails with my air nailer
  - The Ipe was so hard, it blew out my PC nailer in 10 minutes... I bought a Senco nailer for the rest of the deck & it worked great!
  - The nails (2 per joist) should be shot-in at a 15 degree angle (toward the center of the board)
  - I used a piece of 1/16" angle iron for spacing between the boards
  - With the thin gap & "nails & glue" method, the appearance is great.... nice & clean
  - Once completed, you haver a choice.... leave it unfinished & it will turn to a nice silver color. I went the other route & oiled the wood with Penofin, which results in a beautiful walnut brown color.
  - I have found that to keep it brown, you will need to apply the Penofin every 6 months for the first 2 years.... after that once a year should do it. The wood is so hard & dense, it takes a while for the finish to get into the wood.
I hope this helps!

Attached is a photo of my deck (I hope!)

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachme...1&d=1129484068
http://www.pbase.com/jjsphotos/image/50811102http://www.pbase.com/jjsphotos/image/50811102

-jj
10-16-2005, 1:38 PM
Frank Hagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Falkenstein

If I had to choose between ipe and Trex, ipe would win, hands down. Trex has the big advantage of being maintenance-free, but it looks like Trex and not like wood. There are several man-made products, including one Trex line, that has a simulated grain pattern, which improves the look somewhat. It all depends on what look you like, but my preference runs to real wood. I don't understand why you ruled out redwood. I have a cabin in Flagstaff, AZ where the sun effects are extreme due to the altitude, and the winter weather can be harsh. Redwood is the most-used choice in those conditions. Redwood does need to be stained periodically too keep it looking good, and I use SuperDeck for that job.

I have a cabin in Landers, CA, the high desert area of California, with some redwood "board and batten" siding. You do not want to use redwood unless you are planning to treat it yearly. I suspect the environment in the high desert is more extreme than Flagstaff, because within about 5 years untreated redwood is black in color, and heavily striated.
10-16-2005, 1:45 PM
Dave Falkenstein

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Hagan

I have a cabin in Landers, CA, the high desert area of California, with some redwood "board and batten" siding. You do not want to use redwood unless you are planning to treat it yearly. I suspect the environment in the high desert is more extreme than Flagstaff, because within about 5 years untreated redwood is black in color, and heavily striated.

Frank - Untreated redwood will turn black in Flagstaff, too. SuperDeck used about every 18 months to 2 years solves the problem. I have a small redwood bridge at my home in the Phoenix area, which is desert at 2500 feet. That wood was treated with another "outdoor" product and it turned a dark gray in less than 2 years. I'll sand it and treat it with SuperDeck from now on. SuperDeck is indeed super on decks.
10-16-2005, 1:49 PM
joseph j shields

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Falkenstein

Frank - Untreated redwood will turn black in Flagstaff, too. SuperDeck used about every 18 months to 2 years solves the problem. I have a small redwood bridge at my home in the Phoenix area, which is desert at 2500 feet. That wood was treated with another "outdoor" product and it turned a dark gray in less than 2 years. I'll sand it and treat it with SuperDeck from now on. SuperDeck is indeed super on decks.

Dave,

How does SuperDeck compare to Penofin???
Any idea on how it works on Ipe??

Thanks

-jj
10-16-2005, 4:20 PM
Mike Cutler

Ipe, hands down.
About 12 years ago two communities here, along the Long Island sound, built boardwalks. One town built the boardwalk out of Pressure treated, and the other built theirs out of IPE.
The pressure treated boardwalk has required so much maintenance that the town "sold" the planks to raise money for the upkeep.
The Ipe deck has not been touched since the day it was completed. It has weathered to a really nice grey, it is still flat and true, and does not splinter. It sits less than 10 feet up off the water and is exposed to all the various climate conditions that can be expected along the New England coastline.
One more thing, in direct sunlight conditions you can walk barefoot on the boardwalk. Trex can get a little warm in exposed sunlight.
10-16-2005, 7:08 PM
Frank Hagan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Falkenstein

Frank - Untreated redwood will turn black in Flagstaff, too. SuperDeck used about every 18 months to 2 years solves the problem. I have a small redwood bridge at my home in the Phoenix area, which is desert at 2500 feet. That wood was treated with another "outdoor" product and it turned a dark gray in less than 2 years. I'll sand it and treat it with SuperDeck from now on. SuperDeck is indeed super on decks.

I think Phoenix would be closer to the California high desert in terms of climate ... probably hotter on average, but with the same type of wet-dry cycle. Not sure if Phoenix ever gets below freezing; in that respect, the California high desert borrows a page from the Flagstaff area (although Flagstaff gets more snow for sure).

I hate maintenance, so for me the choice is easy. But if your love of wood outweighs the hate of maintenance, then the IPE is probably the better choice. It sure does look great.
10-16-2005, 8:02 PM
Jim Becker

If you really need to do the deck thing, Ipe would also be my choice. But for a surface like you describe, hardscaping could be a better choice. No matter what you build a deck from, it has a shorter lifespan than stone!
10-16-2005, 9:00 PM
JayStPeter

I bought a Trex-alike for my deck. There were a couple reasons. First, nobody nearby sells Ipe that would deliver it. I do have a pickup, but only a 6.5' bed. That much 16' wood would have required a rental and quite a drive to the nearest place I could find. The place selling composite is literally across the street with free local delivery.
Since the rest of my house is also variants of plastic, I think the fiberon deck and PVC railing system fit right in looks wise. Ipe in its weathered state would probably look a little out of place with my new bright plastic house. Doing things like cleaning and staining the deck ... well, you might as well kick me in the groin, I'll enjoy that more. So, it would be weathered looking after a while :cool: .

BTW, my deck gets full sun most of the day and I've never had it heat up to the point that it is uncomfortable to walk on in bare feet. I did kneel on a screw head and get a nice red dot on my knee though.

Jay
10-16-2005, 9:05 PM
Richard Wolf

I think your low ground clearence may poss a problem for the trexs. I seem to recall a minimun airspace for air circulation. Best to call the manufacture.

Richard
10-16-2005, 9:48 PM
Dave Falkenstein

Quote:

Originally Posted by joseph j shields

Dave,

How does SuperDeck compare to Penofin???
Any idea on how it works on Ipe??

Thanks

-jj

SuperDeck is at least as good a product as Pentofin. It holds up at least as well, and perhaps a bit better, according to a test a friend of mine ran on his redwood deck near Flagstaff, AZ. Pentofin MUST be wiped off after application (even on new wood), while SuperDeck needs no wiping on new wood, and minimal wiping on recoatings. So SuperDeck goes on easier and faster. I have not used SuperDeck on ipe, but can see no reason it would not work well, as long as the ipe absorbs the product. BTW, SuperDeck comes in several shades of red and brown and "Natural" as well.
10-17-2005, 9:04 PM
John Shuk

I have a small deck out of Trex and a front porch out of Ipe. I'd go for the Ipe. I have no issues with either but I like the Ipe better. It is stronger and you can save a bit on the framing if you wish to.