A Different Question re: Old vs. New Planes

I have a few older bench planes (#s 3, 4, 5, and 6), mostly Stanley, that I bought off eBay, and I’ve learned that even rusty, cheap planes can be made into good users with some time and effort. I’ve seen (but don’t own) some old planes that looked so good that I don’t know how any plane, including a brand-new LN, could be any better.

On the other hand, it seems that the newer versions of some planes – such as the Veritas or LN low angle, adjustable mouth block planes – are notably superior to the older Stanley models. Obviously, I could be wrong about that (this is pretty new to me), but the only new plane I have is a Veritas LA block (my "reward" for staying smoke-free for 30 days), and it is the nicest hand tool of any type that I've ever owned. With this particular type of plane, I cannot imagine that I could have ever taken an old one and gotten it into anywhere near the condition of my new one.

I'm thinking about getting some additional planes (surprise, surprise!) - maybe a 112-type scraper, a 4-1/2, a 5-1/2, a 7 or 8 - and I can't decide whether to buy old and cheap or new and pricey. Obviously, the decision involves a time vs. money trade-off – i.e., if one plane costs $50 and 3 hours, but works as well (or even almost as well) as a very pretty brand new one that costs $300 and 15 minutes, then which is preferable? The answer to that question is going to vary from person to person. Yogi Berra might say that “nobody can agree on that, unless they agree on that.” SO, THAT IS NOT MY QUESTION.

My question is: OTHER THAN TIME VS. MONEY TRADE-OFF, IS THERE ANY PARTICULAR REASON (SUCH AN ADVANCES IN A PARTICULAR DESIGN, MANUFACTURING PROCESSES, OR MATERIALS) TO BUY THE NEW LN OR VERITAS VERSION OF A SPECIFIC PLANE, RATHER THAN AN OLDER, USED MODEL MADE BY STANLEY, SARGENT, MF, ETC. ? If so, is it true across the board – i.e., a new LN model is better than every equivalent Stanley – or just true for particular models (maybe true for LA blocks, scraper planes, and shoulder planes, but not true for smoothers and jack planes)? Why? What makes the new one better?

Lewis,

I think you may find the answer varies with the type of plane. The new Veritas scraper, for instance, has a couple of bells and whistles the 112 doesn't, and it's not a lot more expensive than an old Stanley in decent shape. For your 4-1/2, if you plan to use it as your main smoother (which is tempting for me with my big hands) you might want to go for the LN unless you can find a between-the-World-Wars vintage Stanley (or a Bedrock, if you got lucky). On the other hand, if it's for occasional use, you could use your #3 and #4 and wait until a decent vintage Stanley swam into your view, or try another maker less pricy than LN.

For a change of pace, check out some of the small-production makers--I have several Steve Knight planes I'm very happy with, for instance.

I don't edge joint all that much, so a decent old #7 would be good enough if I were looking for a jointer. If you glue up panels all day long, your answer would be different.

Whatever you decide, happy shavings!

Lewis,

Let me say that I'm in "the buy old and rehabilitate camp", for both aesthetic and financial reasons. However, one factor favoring new quality planes is their ductile cast iron construction, which supposedly makes them much more resistant to breakage if dropped from any height.

Speaking only for Lie-Neilson and Lee Valley (I just don't know about Clifton and others), the new planes are manufactured using modern CNC machining techniques, and are constructed with tolerances that just weren't possible in the days of the old Bedrocks and such. I would expect that this would translate into much more precise bedding surfaces and adjustment mechanisms.

And I agree with John that there have been some innovations in some of the specialty planes (LV's scraper and shoulder planes come to mind) that make them better choices from a strictly performance standpoint.

But this isn't to say that there aren't many who believe that an older, quality bench plane equipped with a good aftermarket iron isn't going to put you within 95% of the performance of a premium modern equivalent for a lot less money. I don't know about you, but I'm a long, long way from being able to appreciate that last 5% of performance.

I pesonally own a mixture of old and new planes. Being somewhat of a thrifty Yankee, I have a problem with spending $250 to $300 or more for many of the upscale planes. Having said that, there are good reasons to my mind for doing so in several categories. Many of the older specialty planes such as the #112 or #212 scrapers, rabbet and rabbet trimming planes, shoulder planes, and other less common items are quite pricey because of their scarcity or collector value. In these cases it is cheaper to buy new and the product often has been improved by makers like LV or LN. Common planes like the #5-#8 are mostly used in less than precision applications, are readily available at a good price, and are of more than adequate quality if tuned and fettled with some degree of care. To my mind these are best bought used. When it comes to the really heavily used planes like a smoother or a block plane, then one old and one new of each is a good choice. I tend to use my older smoothers for the prep work and use one of my top end toys for the last few strokes and the final surface. Another option as noted by John, is to buy an old plane from one of the time periods when the quality was still very good. You can then tune it and for better blade edge retention add one of the aftermarket blades from Shepherd Tool, Vlad Spehar, or from Ron Hock. One other note is that there are a lot of old makers out there other than Stanley, and some of them such as Millers Falls and Sargent made planes of quality even higher than the old Stanleys.

I love the look, feel, and the performance of the high grade modern tools currently being made, but often they are bought more for pride of ownership than for their performance. Assess your needs and then make your choices. If at all possible try to test drive some of your potential choices at a friends house or at one of the shops. With the growing popularity of woodworking over the last dozen or so years, there are more choices now than there have been in almost a hundred years for quality tools. We have entered a new golden age of tools. You know...... if you have the gold, you can have the tools.