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I'm considering selling off my Japanese chisels but I need some help pricing them. I bought them a number of years ago and don't remember what I paid for them. They are Koyamaichi, mostly bought from Lee Valley when they carried them and a couple, I believe, from Hida, but I could be mistaken.
I have 5 - 3mm, 6mm, 12mm, 18mm and 36mm. I'm not looking at making a killing from them, just for fair, reasonable prices. Any help with determining pricing would be appreciated.
Cliff
I would suggest comparing to similar on E-Bay. Thats a starting point. Are these chisels in fair/good/excellent condition? Are the handles sound? As I am unfamiliar with Japanese chisels and their makers I could not begin to estimate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Polubinsky
If possible, post pictures and maybe a more qualified answer will come along.
Cliff, I cannot help with a price, but I suggest selling them as a set and avoid breaking them up. They should have more value this way since Koyamaichi now appear unobtainable in the West. They are very good chisels, and you will not get a price from eBay since I very much doubt that anyone is selling them. My guestimate is an average of $150 per chisel. [edit: that is AUD. About $100 USD each]Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Polubinsky
I do have a set, some custom made for me by Mr Koyama specifically for dovetailing. I would not sell them.
https://i.postimg.cc/HnhTvN8v/Koyamaichi1.jpg
Regards from Perth
Derek
Cliff, you might contact Lee Valley. They have kept track on many things I have purchased from them in the past and may have the same type of file on your purchases.
jtk
If it's of any value, I paid $49.50 for my 9mm Koyamaichi from Lee Valley in 1/2020. I believe that was during them closing them out. Wish I had bought a few more sizes, that chisel is my go to if needing a chisel that size.
Do they have these same stickers?
Attachment 518617
Hida has prices on their website for their several levels of chisels, for some data points.
Some Ebay comps:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/23549531239...2B9VY6CNRZ3N56
https://www.ebay.com/itm/13502369519...8AAOSwimJj0VGJ
https://www.ebay.com/itm/29636915485...3ABFBMnJufx99j
https://www.ebay.com/itm/29619324834...3ABFBMmtH3x99j
If you research eBay for pricing, it is important to only look at Koyamaichi chisels, and no other makes. Such as this ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325952221319
That is an 18mm oire nomi and it is $108 USD.
Here is a set of 5 Koiyamaichi - from Lee Valley - selling for $375 ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/17630050585...Bk9SR7rnu9HfYw
There are many - many! - Japanese chisels on offer that are cheap - but they are nameless.
I have Kiyohisa chisels and, if I wanted to sell them (which I will not), I would be guided by other equivalent Kiyohisa chisels on sale.
Regards from Perth
Derek
I'd say if you want to sell some chisels, it's important to look at what the market is.
Chisels could be compared to wine- you can spend $$$ for wine, but it might not win a blind taste test, and above a certain point, differences in quality are slight, so one may be paying for a name.
I have currently about 70 Japanese chisels (as well as a bunch of planes)- some bought new as early as 1980, and others in more recent years through Ebay. Many of those were clearly long used by professional carpenters.
They basically all perform well, with subtle differences, & better than any western chisels that I have used (not an extensive list).
Finally, I would not expect Japanese chisels sold by a mass market American company to be top quality, especially based on to blurb in the link above, which includes this:
"The chisel blank is then formed to it's general shape with dies in a press." So clearly not hand forged- the hallmark of Japanese quality.
And also: "Koyamaichi is chisel maker in Miki city, Hyogo (outside Kobe) with a century plus history of making high quality chisels for those crafts persons who need their chisels to work for a living over those who may wish to admire their tools. As a result, they tend toward utilitarian in appearance without the polish and flair that some chisels made in Japan may have."
This is belied by the fact the they also make (and apparently are famous for) chisels with dragons carved in the necks.
Cameron, undoubtedly we pay for a name. Cliff did not write, "I have 5 Japanese chisels for sale". He wrote "I have 5 Koyamaichi Japanese chisels for sale".Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Wood
If you had 5 Lie Nielsen or 5 Veritas chisels for sale, would you advertise them as "5 chisels for sale"?
Obviously the name means something. As with Porsche, BMW, and Tesla (just as examples), there is an expectation of quality that we associate with a name. If you can afford and desire one, this would be a preference over a Hyundai (which certainly may be a decent car, nonetheless).
Regards from Perth
Derek
Yes, good point, however Cliff's pool of potential buyers likely contains almost none who recognize that maker name, or any other Japanese one.
The "subtle differences" comment is interesting. For some situations there are chisels in my accumulation that just feel better than any of my other chisels.Quote:
They basically all perform well, with subtle differences, & better than any western chisels that I have used (not an extensive list).
Most notable is when pairing such as removing a shaving from a tight tenon. The feel as it slices through a thin layer of wood is almost like it is floating through butter while the shaving peels off.
Is a "subtle" difference in metallurgy between chisels enough to make one chisel glide through its work while another feels constrained?
jtk
Jim,Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Koepke
I've looked through my order history and haven't been able to find it. Called Customer Service and she was able to find the order for the dovetail and paring chisels but not the bench chisels. Curiously, she was able to find part numbers for those two but nothing for the bench models.
Cliff
A slight clarification. I said I was -considering- selling them.
The reason is because I'm switching over to hollow grinding and I've read where some advise against that for Japanese chisels. My other set are Veritas PM-V11, which can be hollow ground with no problem and I'm reluctant to need to maintain 2 different systems. At this point in my life I'm trying to simplify rather than complicate.
But after researching more I've found that a number of people whose opinion I respect say that it's fine to hollow grind Japanese chisels, so I'll give it a try.
Thank you all for your comments. It's much appreciated.
Cliff
Keeping various groups of chisels in good working order can be a challenge. Toss in a bunch of gouges, turning tools, drill bits and other non-woodworking tools and things can drive a person to distraction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Polubinsky
As much as a good hollow grind is appreciated for the ease of freehand sharpening, it was more practical to go with equipment to maintain a flat bevel. Different strokes for different folks.
jtk
IMO, the reason for hollow grinding is make it easier to maintain the angle on thin blades and to have less metal to remove while honing The thick Japanese ones have a much bigger surface to reference the stone, and the majority of that is softer iron. If they are hollow ground, the remaining softer metal of the chisel body tends to wear faster, decreasing the cutting angle. Less regular chisel shapes often do not fit well in honing guides- the back and the front are likely not parallel. The hard cutting edge is susceptible to burning- less of an issue these days with CBN wheels etc..
I have hollow ground a few Japanese chisels BITD, but concluded it was not worthwhile, particularly as it was so easy to burn the cutting edge on a bench grinder, you wouldn't grind all the way to the edge anyway. Nowadays with diamond stones it's much easier to remove material by hand as well.