Upgrading to a larger jointer

I wanted to get some advice on upgrading to a larger jointer. I have owned a Delta DJ-15 and then a Powermatic 60. However, moving up to a larger jointer to handle ~10-12" boards is new territory. I have a rotary phase converter, so I'm not limited to single phase machines. I do have a bias to American Iron, so I'll admit that clouds my judgement. I have looked at used Northfield, Moak, Oliver (not the new Sunhill stuff) etc. With the exception of Northfield, the rest are out of business and I'm not sure about the parts. I would like to know if any of you think there is a large difference between these older jointers and a Delta DJ-30 or even a used Powermatic 1285? If so, what are the differences?

I have talked to a number of folks and I get a mixed set of opinions, from "bigger is better", to 8" is plenty. At this point I have been looking at 12" jointers, since I can't see buying a 16" jointer if the max wood width I deal with is at most 12".

Also, how many of you would invest in a Byrd Shelix head for larger jointers? This is the last jointer I want to purchase.

Thanks for your help.

I have 2 .. A Griggio 12" with 96" beds, 4hp PH-3, 1000lbs, 54" x 7" Cast Iron Fence.
And a Griggio 16" with 102" Beds, 6.6hp PH-3, 1240lbs, big fence and a Maggi Swing away 1hp x 4 wheel feeder.

The 12" has a 4 knife Tersa cutterhead.
The 16" is being restored and will probably have a Byrd cutterhead.

Personally I like Tersa over Indexible cutterheads, but that's just me. I just bought a 520mm Tersa Cutterhead which will be here next week for a Griggio Planer I am restoring. I paid a slight premium for the Tersa and am very happy about it. On the 16" Jointer, the Tersa is just too much more money ..

When you throw a 2x12 or 2x10 maple slab on an industrial jointer, you quickly realize that the machine could mill wood like that for 20 years, without a hiccup. The 12" Jointer doesn't vibrate and never seems to even slow down, regardless of the workload. Its just really overbuilt.

I would bet Northfield and Moak would be the same or maybe better.

I will sell the 12" as soon as the 16" is restored. I assume that will be 6 months. The reason for upgrading is simply because the 12" is an amazingly impressive machine, and I assume the 16" will just be that much better.

Don't hesitate to take a 16" or even a 20" Jointer. Bigger, heavier, longer is better.

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Originally Posted by john mcnaughton

Also, how many of you would invest in a Byrd Shelix head for larger jointers? This is the last jointer I want to purchase.

Thanks for your help.

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I wouldn't hesitate to add a Shelix head to whatever you buy. Just keep in mind that it does require a bit more effort to feed your stock. I added one to an 8" machine and thought I had done something wrong due to the increased friction.
12 - 16 inch machine, I would strongly suggest a stock feeder.

I mickey moused around and figured a way to use the one I had on the shaper without removing it. Placed on the outfeed side it worked great for running flooring blanks.

I agree that 16 is more useful than 12 ( have a 12" Oliver 166 bd sitting to prove it ) but any old jointer with good beds will serve well. The Brazil Invictas were fine jointers too as are the Euro 410s ( SCM, Griggio, SAC, EMA etc ). It is all about quality of beds. I do think that when you get over 20 years old the US motors hold up better than the Euro ones so make sure they run. Old jointers will have better bearings unless someone replaced the good stuff with sealed. Oil bath machines are worth a premium in my world. Oliver, Northfield, American, Newman, Clement, and my favorite, Porter ( whole 'nother threads as to why ) are all options. Northfield command a premium because they are still alive but there isn't much to break on a jointer so not a big deal. I would expect to pay about 3K for a good condition plug and play jointer but deals can also be found. Watch for cold planing lines on the beds. If you can see them in pictures all the way across the tables, the machine is worth further consideration. The old jointers were ground to tight specs and the cast iron was aged before it was ground- or planed- so what you see is what you get. Don't worry about the head as long as it isn't the Oliver Clamshell. Jointers are easy to set knives with, and are seldom a finish machine. The old ones use heavy knives that hold up a long time. Tersa is great. Spiral is fine on a small jointer for edges but I wouldn't want to run rough crappy lumber over carbide inserts when it is going through the planer or sander anyway. Easier for me to change or shift knives than worry about inserts. Others differ but the large 5" diameter cutterblocks on old machines give a great finish and are usually well balanced. Dave

PS. If you have the room, keep the smaller jointer too. I use a DJ 20 with ESTA knives for edges and small work. Not close to the old in terms of bed quality but the faster speed and smaller head do get used a lot. If I didn't have the ESTA I would put a byrd on it. Will never give up the Porter though. Although I saw a Bauerle, and a Kolle, and a Martin ...

I have had three jointers so far: 8" Tiawanese, 12" jointer/planer Italian, 16" jointer/planer in Italian combo machine. Each machine was right for me at one time and it suited the scale of my work and shop. Well I could have skipped the 8" jointer were it not for the pocket book scale, the 12" combo would have been a perfect first machine but unimaginably expensive for me a a 20 something, I paid less for a 5 piece shop.

So how big is big enough? It depends on your work. If you regularly use 12" stock the elbow room that a 16" machine provides you as well as the weight and motor might will pay dividends. I would hate to have a 20" machine if I worked largely 3" to 12" stock in a hobby or small commercial shop. Every time you spark up all of that rotating mass you are spending money for capacity that you are not using.

I like the idea of old iron but the finesse that the modern European manufacturers put into their current machines is truly a treat to use. I prefer Tersa to insert chips but that is me, I have both.

Interesting that both you fellas also prefer Tersa .. I thought I was alone on that .. David summed it up .. get a nick.. ( especially in a jointer ) .. slide a knife 1/16".. and your away again.. Indexible is great and I would certainly not take one out, but its like Tersa offers that last level of convenience.

I would disagree on the 20" .. you simply set the fence as if its a 12" .. but 16" and wider is great for running a power feeder because your up in that 6.6hp - 10hp range. I think Martin is 7.5hp .. Yes the knives cost more and that last 4" - 8" doesn't really get used as much, but that is a financial discussion, (with a helical, there would be no loss of knife use.)

In Kansas, there are not a lot of big used jointers for sale. I bought a Grizzly G0609 12", parallelogram like the Delta DJ 30. Have seen one DJ30 for sale since I bought mine, several years ago. I have the Byrd head, installed it myself, had to take off the infeed table. The great thing about the parallelogram tables is they are so easily adjusted. But mine was good right out of the box, and still is. I would have liked a 16" jointer, as I saw my own lumber, and often get a piece larger than 12". Considered getting a combo machine, but gets really expensive buying new and having to sell your old. I have a widebelt sander, so could just use a 60 grit belt to grind down those wider pieces.

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Originally Posted by Rick Fisher

I have 2 ..

Don't hesitate to take a 16" or even a 20" Jointer. Bigger, heavier, longerbuer is better.

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I think in this day and age that the market is wide spreed with vintage joiners. Though i don't have any of them fancy heads i would like the Teresa myself and it would be only for the reason that i could change out knifes quick to what is suited to the work and that being that a toasted dull set be use for dirty or others wise material that could have metal in it. as it is i have just have a 16" wadkin with skewed knife head but carbide straight knifes in it for teak and the above mentioned. the others a 6"/8"/ and 26" have HSS 18% tungstand knifes for other work so there always a sharp set in one of them. All combined all 4 joiners were less than a 12" fancy head:D. Jointer are not finishing machines so i would not worry about the old heads to much

Count me on the "bigger is better" team. It's not just about accommodating wide boards, but also being able to flatten irregular shapes and also to be able to skew material prone to tear out as it passes through the machine for a more shearing cut. (conventional knives or Tersa type knives) My J/P is just under 14" (350mm) and many times I've used every bit of that width...

As to the Byrd or similar head, they do have some advantages with cut quality in most materials and may even be quieter to run. Of course, you also have to deal with a bazzillion little cutters... ;)