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Looking for a new SUV drives me nuts. I research things way more than I should.
As a family member always says "Ask the woodworkers, they know everything" LOL
Driving around dealers lots today I spotted a KIA Seltos.
It has a dual clutch transmission. I googled it and now know what they are, but are they reliable vs a standard automatic transmission?
Would you by an SUV with a dual clutch transmission?
I think you need to share what the heck that is since you now know. Because I sure don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lehnert
But I'm leaning toward yes, since we love our 2 KIA's
My daughter bought a seltos brand new, 5500 miles later, no issues and she loves it.
I have to wonder about transmission repairs in ten or twenty years. Will there still be shops doing the work? Most ICE cars will no longer be sold in ten years so repair shops will slowly go out of business. I no longer see alternator and starter repair shops. Radiator shops are going away as well. They just replace stuff now a days not repair them.
Bill D
I avoid anything from KIA/Hyundai. They’ve had more recalls than I can count over the past few years. There’s a current recall on 50,000+ Hyundai’s using the same dual clutch.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with dual clutch transmissions, but they work better in sports cars. Shifts come lightning quick, but some people don’t like them because they’re a little chunky at low speeds. I wouldn’t have any interest in one in an SUV. A traditional torque-converter automatic is definitely going to be more reliable in any case.
Again, avoid KIA/Hyundai. Same company. Too many recalls. Their engines are time bombs as well.
A dual clutch transmission (DCT) works with two clutches. One for odd gears, one for evens. So you’re in first gear and second gear is already primed and ready. Porsche has the best DCT on the market, currently. The DCT in the new corvette is supposedly pretty great as well, but I don’t have any experience with one yet. On the Porsche’s you pull the shift paddle and it’s already done shifting before you can release the lever. Fractions of a second to complete the shift. They’re amazing in race cars but honestly unnecessary in a street car. I like manual transmissions in sporty street cars, but DCT is a close second. Makes you feel like an F1 driver when snapping off downshifts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Zellers
There is nothing more to fear about dual clutch transmissions than there is to fear in a torque converter transmission. Torque converter (automatic transmissions most folks are familiar with) have multiple clutches as well as a torque converter all of which are inherently inefficient. Much of the torque converter inefficiency was solved with the advent of lockup clutches in automotive applications but clutch drag on open clutches can only be optimized, not eliminated. DCT have the benefit of having only one open clutch causing drag. European car manufacturers have been using DCTs for a long time for both efficiency and performance reasons.
The bottom line is the transmission is as good as the parts contained within which is a function of the engineering and manufacturing expertise applied to the design. (Full disclosure...I made my living designing/developing multi-speed transmissions with a very reputable company.)
Many modern transmissions are not field serviceable already. Subaru is a good example and it's been that way for quite some time now. Both the TR580 and TR690 CVTs get replaced if something other than the clutch plate needs attention. Most issues are software related and software resolved. While the tendency to replace rather than fix is certainly something that contributes to the demise of the small shops that rebuilt/fixed things, there's also a major labor shortage for the same because there's no training. People in those businesses are aging out and there's nobody with the skills (or desire) to take their places. So it's a circular problem, in effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Dufour
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Dave, this is the first I've heard of that particular type of transmission. There's no getting away from "technier" solutions at this point, regardless of brand. It's all software controlled anyway. Many folks like Kia/Hyundai.
I sorta know how they work, but am unclear as to the method of engaging the clutches. The torque converter 'slips' at low speeds but allow autos ito idle in gear and transmit power when speed increases. What is the disengagement - reingagement method with a dual clutch?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayne Watt
When the vehicle is stopped, the clutch is depressurized (open) just like a manual transmission would be when one depresses the clutch pedal. The difference here is the brake pedal is supplying the signal to the control unit to open the clutch. When the brake is released, the clutch is closed slowly as a function of the rate of change of the accelerator pedal and the vehicle accelerates. At engine idle there would be little or no movement of the vehicle until the accelerator pedal is depressed. The clutches are kept cool by oil flow so slippage is not an issue like it would be on a dry clutch normally associated with a manual transmission. This slippage is where/how the soft start feel is achieved which is somewhat similar to a torque converter feel.
Gear changes are accomplished by an actuator that pre-shifts into the next gear. So, while the vehicle is accelerating in 1st gear, 2nd gear mesh is already engaged. The actual shift occurs by engaging the second clutch while (near) simultaneously releasing the first clutch (this is where the shift "feel" can be tuned). With 2nd gear engaged, another actuator then shifts into 3rd gear mesh awaiting the next clutch swap from clutch 2 back to clutch 1. This repeats back and forth until the desired ground speed is achieved with an optimal engine speed or there are no more gear ratios to select (you've topped out on an eight speed transmission, for example).
Obviously, there is a bit more to the process than I described, but if the control software was done well, then the shifts will be seamless with little notice to the driver. Of course, the aggressiveness of the shifting can be set up to provide the F1 experience described in an earlier post or just about anything in between.
There will ve no repair shops because there will not be enough energy to run them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Dufour
Personally i wouldn't buy a dual clutch transmission. Maybe if was red with a prancing horse logo. But for a SUV, no. It's a solution in search of a problem. The reason why standard transmissions are extremely hard to find in new cars is because it takes both feet and hands to shift gears while driving. Their benefits are not slipping. With the invention of the lock up torque converter automatic transmissions closed the gap. CVT transmissions are a newer option that also work well.
The problem with a clutch is when you are at a stop and trying to move very slowly. That's when a clutch needs to be slipped. Dry clutches wear very quickly when they are slipped. So i assume these are wet clutches. But even wet clutches can be burnt up. Nobody cares about trying to back their Ferrari into a parking spot because it's rarely done. They are designed to be driven into a corner as fast as possible, brake heard, and then accelerate out quickly. But the family truckster's job is to be a tame. It'll sit at a light inching forward while waiting for a gap to open up to make a left turn while the clutch is slipping. It'll back into hundreds of parking spots in it's lifetime.
Clutches are a wear item that will need replacing at some point. The clutches inside an automatic transmission are protected from a lot of wear because the torque converter slips. Without knowing more about Kia's dual clutch transmission I wouldn't want to pay to have the clutches replaced because the wife was too hard on them. My guess is the engine and transmission would have to be removed together to get at them. But, that's just me. Again, I don't see anything wrong with a modern automatic to come up with this solution.
Hear what you are saying. I never considered a KIA till I see JD Power rates it as the most reliable brand sold now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Mullendore
Had a friend who had two Hyundai. One had the engine replaced twice, the other caught fire. 1st engine under warranty. Second and the other car had some age on them at that point.
I now drive a 2013 Chevy Equinox 4 cyl, If you read about them you would NEVER consider buying one, But for me It has been the best car I have ever owned over the last 10 years.
Overall reliability ratings don't necessarily mirror to actual experience. Some vehicles have "more" instances of issues, but that might be a whole percentage point higher. Over hundreds of thousands of vehicles built in a year for some of the models reflected, the "actual" experience of owners may very well still be great. And it does unfortunately seem that "some people" are just plain unlucky. That said, for me personally, one bad apple can get a pass, but more than one, well...I look at other options. I haven't owned one manufacturer's vehicles for decades because of that while I have had good experiences with vehicles that seem to get ire from a lot of folks.