Case & Face Frame Construction Detail

In building the cases separate from the bases, my plan was to align the bottom of the face frame with the bottom of the case. Therefore, the base would be the height, 4", of the necessary toe kick.

1. If the face frame is flush with the bottom of the case, what is typically done to account for the height difference from the top of the bottom rail of the face frame to the top of the bottom inside the case? For example, if the bottom rail is 3" tall and the case bottom is from 3/4" ply, the height difference is 2.25". Or, should the reverse be done by keeping the top of the face frame flush with the bottom ,extend the face frame down, and raise the base to have the require toe kick height?

2. The case will have a mix of drawers and doors so with the door sections, should a "false bottom" be added to be flush (or slightly above to act as a stop) with the top of the bottom rail of the face frame?

Hope that's clear. Thanks in advance!

Brett

i usually flush the top of the lower rail to the edge of the cabinet bottom so that you can slide stuff out over the rail without having to lift it. i shoot for 4" clearance underneath the cabinet box. are you sure you want 3" wide rails? i usually go with 1 1/2" to 2" when building face frame. if you're intending on building inset doors then some people intentionally attach the face frame slightly below the top of the cabinet bottom so that it acts as a stop after edgebanding it so that the plywood edge doesn't show. i just use a scrap piece of wood and hang it flush inside the upper rail and use rubber bumpers which give the doors something to bump into.

I just made some cabinets like you are talking about, separate bases and cases. I made my face frames 1-1/2" wide for all the rails and stiles. The intermittent frames between doors are 2" wide. The top of the bottom rail sits 1/8" above the top of the the bottom of the case. The bottom of the face frame hangs below the bottom of the case about 5/8". My doors stop 1/4" short of being flush with the bottom of the face frames (still building the doors, so no pictures).

Just make the base height whatever it needs to be to get the desired finished toe-kick height. I think you will find there is no "set" dimension for the toe-kick height. I have seen anywhere from 3-1/2" to 4"+ published.

Mike

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Originally Posted by frank shic

i usually flush the top of the lower rail to the edge of the cabinet bottom so that you can slide stuff out over the rail without having to lift it. i shoot for 4" clearance underneath the cabinet box. are you sure you want 3" wide rails? i usually go with 1 1/2" to 2" when building face frame. if you're intending on building inset doors then some people intentionally attach the face frame slightly below the top of the cabinet bottom so that it acts as a stop after edgebanding it so that the plywood edge doesn't show. i just use a scrap piece of wood and hang it flush inside the upper rail and use rubber bumpers which give the doors something to bump into.

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I do the same thing. Your significant other will thank you many times over if you make it flush every time the cabinet needs cleaned.

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Originally Posted by Lee Schierer

I do the same thing. Your significant other will thank you many times over if you make it flush every time the cabinet needs cleaned.

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Hi Lee, This brings up a good point.

Brett, if you are the primary user of the cabinets, make them to suit you. If someone else is the primary user, you may want to consult with them. I had the opposite experience from my significant other. She likes to put in shelf liners and the lip helps keep them in place. One of our houses did not have the lip and shelf liner was always getting tangled up and trying to get out the door. I guess its a matter of personal preference.

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Originally Posted by Michael W. Clark

Just make the base height whatever it needs to be to get the desired finished toe-kick height. I think you will find there is no "set" dimension for the toe-kick height. I have seen anywhere from 3-1/2" to 4"+ published.

Mike

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+1 to this and to the other comments that encourage you to flush the top of the bottom rail to the top of the bottom - for both bases and uppers. With respect to Mike's 2nd comment about the shelf liner - YIKES :confused:. How can anyone build to shelf liner thickness? This year it is one thickness (thinness) but when you come to replace the worn out shelf liner you end up using a different product and ... I guess if you are building to suit your SO's personal preference than you do what you must but I would never give that option to a client without a very exact sample of the shelf liner and an upcharge for the aggravation. I would not even bring the subject to the client's attention as an option.

i hate shelf liners as well although i'll bet my wife will stick them in everywhere once i rebuild the kitchen...

Thanks for the input thus far. Sorry, the 3" wide rail was a bad example as I just wanted to emphasize the possible height difference. I plan on using a 2" wide rails and stiles for the face frame since both ends of the bathroom vanity will be scribed to the adjacent walls--just want to give myself enough room for what should be minimal out-of-plumbness in a run of say 32".

The doors will be inset so are there concealed hinges that don't require door stops?

Thanks,
Bret