CamMaster Options

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03-12-2018, 6:10 PM
Dan Schmidt

CamMaster Options

OK, I've settled on the CamMaster Stinger II SR44. I am a serious hobby woodworker with occasional revenue generation. I tend to buy higher end tools vs. what I can really justify with facts & figures, but hey I'm sure I'm not alone.

In terms of options on the machine, I'm certain I'll be getting a spindle upgrade, laser, counterweight, recoil lathe, FTC, and 900 oz motors. I'm quite torn on vacuum table option as it is a bit pricey and I'm interested in your opinions. The Phenolic vacuum table is $1495 and a cyclone vacuum is $2795. I will not be throwing huge volume through the machine but I do like the idea of avoiding hold down clamps. What are your experiences and thoughts on vacuum table? Would I find the value or should I put this $$ into something else?

Dan
03-12-2018, 6:51 PM
dan nelson

Dan, In my opinion I would not invest the cash in the recoil., I have one on my stinger III x 3 and it doesn't get used that much. sure its way cool but don't expect to do mass quantities of turnings fast. Phenolic table is nice but in a some what controlled environment you can buy alot of light weight mdf for the spoil board for that price. I have the cyclone and it does work pretty well. a little loud but thats to be expected. You will enjoy the spindle and laser though. Dan Nelson.
03-12-2018, 6:58 PM
Mark Bolton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Schmidt

OK, I've settled on the CamMaster Stinger II SR44. I am a serious hobby woodworker with occasional revenue generation. I tend to buy higher end tools vs. what I can really justify with facts & figures, but hey I'm sure I'm not alone.

In terms of options on the machine, I'm certain I'll be getting a spindle upgrade, laser, counterweight, recoil lathe, FTC, and 900 oz motors. I'm quite torn on vacuum table option as it is a bit pricey and I'm interested in your opinions. The Phenolic vacuum table is $1495 and a cyclone vacuum is $2795. I will not be throwing huge volume through the machine but I do like the idea of avoiding hold down clamps. What are your experiences and thoughts on vacuum table? Would I find the value or should I put this $$ into something else?

Dan

I have no idea about the Camaster options but with regards to the vacuum table, what size parts do you predominantly run? Unless your willing to do a lot of fixturing a through table vac is not going to hold small parts. If your talking about larger parts or holding down large fixtures then sure it would be great.

To me at least it seems most smaller machines tend to process a lot of smaller parts and unless youve got a monstrous amount of vac your just not going to hold anything all that small.
03-12-2018, 7:57 PM
Jim Becker

Dan, on my order, I opted not to buy the recoil lathe or even the prep for it. The prep isn't expensive, but the extended gantry would have caused a space issue for me in my shop situation. I also received some sage advise from someone I trust that if I don't actually have an application for the recoil lathe, it's unlikely I'll use it anytime soon, so putting that money elsewhere felt better for me. For now. Otherwise, my order is pretty similar to what you are considering...SR-44, 1.7kw spindle, Performance Package that includes the later, counterweight, FRC and motors. I bought a few other doo-dads, such as the maintenance kit, too.

I was also thinking about about vacuum, but decided to eschew that for now for both cost reasons and because I'm not sure where it would play best for me for the various things I think I'll be making, at least in the near term. I felt learning to use the machine with clamps and fixtures would also be a good exercise and let me ascertain if I really need to move to vacuum. I have a small pump I can use for pucks or other small parts setup if I want to already...but it wouldn't be appropriate for holding half-sheets for sure. The money for vacuum would impinge upon tooling which is something none of us can forget to consider. At least that's how I feel things are for me right now.

I'm actually hoping for delivery of my machine in the next few weeks since it was ordered early February...maybe I'll even see it being "born" later in the week when I'm there for the training course. :) :D
03-12-2018, 9:07 PM
Mark Bolton

"Born" ? What in the world kind of voodoo have you gotten yourself into? I have a lot of equipment in my shop that I have emotional attachments to... But born?
03-12-2018, 10:07 PM
Peter Rawlings

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bolton

"Born" ? What in the world kind of voodoo have you gotten yourself into? I have a lot of equipment in my shop that I have emotional attachments to... But born?

HA, that's funny. I'm figuring on wearing a hat with dead birds on from here on in...

You think "born" is emo, you should see the classified ads at some audio sites I frequent. Guys, (it's almost exclusively guys), wax on and on about their beloved pre-amp or some such. Beloved? Really? No wonder your wife rolls her eyes...
03-12-2018, 10:11 PM
Jim Becker

I never claimed to be totally sane or even handsome...so yea, I'm having a big yellow baby real soon now. :) :D

-----

We now return you to Dan's regularly scheduled thread. ;)
03-13-2018, 10:58 AM
Dan Schmidt

LOL. I honestly feel the same way. Once I write that check I'll be eagerly awaiting my 'lil stinger baby :-). Not many chances in life to make such a big purchase so it is indeed exciting (but sure, the human babies do get the tie breaker vote).

Thanks for the input. I'm really wrestling now. We all tend to draw a (sometimes psychological / sometimes real) financial boundary of what we are willing to spend. The recoil lathe is a must for me based on some very specific decorative turning needs. Vacuum table definitely more of a nice-to-have, but it is indeed pricey. You are right Jim that I could always add this later, and perhaps getting used to manual clamping for a while would make me appreciate it all the more later. Do you think you'd use/prefer the X3 option over the vacuum capability?

Dan
03-13-2018, 11:29 AM
Jim Becker

It sounds like the Recoil is a good choice for you since you actually have an application! Just keep in mind that there is a substantial learning curve even for "flat work", so be realistic about when you'll get to that fourth axis since it adds some additional "fun and games" to the programming. :)

X3 is interesting as it's essentially a "poor man's 3-tool ATC". For me, I didn't feel the need, but for someone intending some production work that would benefit from switching spindles/routers, it's a very nice solution for the Stinger II.

It's easy to go hog-wild and just order everything available, assuming the money is on-hand, but that's not always the most prudent approach, especially for those of us new to CNC. I figure it's going to be between 6 months and a year minimum before I really feel comfortable with what I have chosen. That's one reason I'm not jumping on vacuum right away. I need time to learn what my actual needs are. The options I chose are supportive of pretty much anything I might do and would be harder to add later. A vacuum setup, however, is an easy retrofit if it becomes clear that it will be useful or needed for wherever I end up with this new tool in my shop.
03-13-2018, 6:42 PM
James Biddle

Dan, Gary Campbell has a great post on the Camheads forum called "Buying a CNC? Do Your Homework!!" It's really a must read before buying (although it doesn't do a deep dive into options).

Define what you want to do on the CNC and what kind of use/hours you intend to run it. Things like the size, spindle/router, gantry height, machine series (duty cycle), tool change are hard to add or alter later on. Look around at the various projects people produce if you need ideas. That will define most of your MUST have options. After that, see if your budget will pay for it.

I ended up replacing my initial CNC because I did not want to live with the down time of waiting at the machine to change a bit. The rub is I did not buy the ATC option as a way to save money on the initial CNC. Think I ended up saving money?

If not, save up a little longer and maybe spend time learning the different software programs available for your machine. You can use many of those programs to produce designs cut with machines other than CNC so you'll have a leg up when it comes time for the CNC. You'll also get a feel for what the different software programs cost.

If you're still under budget, look at the options available for things you might LIKE to do someday. Some of those options can cost less if you have the CNC "prepped" for that option instead of paying for it initially only to never use it. For example, the recoil is available with the functional lathe attached or prepped with the drive, extended gantry and wiring. Various vacuum options can also fit in this category. But don't prep a machine for an option if you have no interest or for potential resale.

Then, be careful of all the stuff available you may be able to easily buy later or as you find the need, but add to the initial cost. Router bit starter kits, maintenance kits, remote pendants, etc. can all be bought separately, sometimes at less cost.
03-14-2018, 6:12 AM
Bill Kelleher

its alive!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bolton

"Born" ? What in the world kind of voodoo have you gotten yourself into? I have a lot of equipment in my shop that I have emotional attachments to... But born?

https://www.google.com/search?q=you+...hrome&ie=UTF-8
03-14-2018, 9:29 PM
Jim Becker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Kelleher

https://www.google.com/search?q=you+...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Poor Dan's thread has taken an unexpected turn... :eek:
03-15-2018, 8:52 AM
Dan Schmidt

All good here. I went to see a local shop with both vacuum systems and ATC. Spent time thinking through my work and where I would use the convenience and productivity of each option. Jim, it sounds like we are buying almost identical setups. I decided to add the vacuum system now vs. later, but otherwise the same machine. Cody is a bit out of pocket right now, but as soon as he gets me a clean quote I'll be sending the check....then I wait. Good thing these babies are born in only a few months vs. 9. Now I need to prep for a few 220V circuits, route compressed air, and a new DC branch. Also started to play with Vectric demo software. All part of the fun!

Dan
03-15-2018, 12:45 PM
Jim Becker

That indeed will be a fine machine! I'm currently at the two day training in "sunny Cartersville GA" (where I had to scrap the frost off my Grand Cherokee's windscreen this morning LOL) and very much enjoying it. Gary is a superb presenter/trainer. I really do recommend you take this training next time it's offered (every couple of months) as it's worth the time, travel and a few shekels of expense.

Contact me privately and I'll send you the latest Stinger II prep guide when I get home next week. (visiting the 'rents for a couple days after the training) as it will be helpful to you getting things setup electrically, etc. The machine requires a 4-wire 120/250v circuit and your vacuum blower requires a separate 3-wire, 240v circuit. I'll tell you how I handled things and what i bought to prep for the machine.