"New" G. H. Bishop saw

I'm starting a project that will have some tough rip cuts, and I needed a more aggressive rip saw than the one I already had. I'm pleased with what I found, pleased enough that I thought I'd post some pictures. (Note: I think I paid a fair price for it, but not a bargain price, so even though I'm happy with it, it's not "suckable.")

I'm partial to Bishop saws because they were made in my state, Indiana, at least for the company's last couple of decades. The company started in Cincinnati in the 1880's and moved to Indiana in about 1899. This one is marked Cincinnati, so it was probably made in the late 1800's.

I've already sharpened it, but the teeth were in good condition and didn't need to be reshaped. It's marked No. 8, 28 inches, 5.5 ppi, with a short section at the toe at 7 ppi. I've never used a saw with a thumb hole before. I wasn't sure I'd like that, and it feels a little strange to have my index finger curled into the hole rather than extended along the side of the handle, but it's not uncomfortable. I noticed that the handle covers the top of the plate, which I've seen before only on Disston saws. I don't know if it was more common with this sort of handle or not. The only significant problem is that the top horn was broken off and reattached with a screw and a couple of small nails. Certainly not the way I'd repair it, but I don't think I'm going to risk doing more damage by trying to take out the screw and nails.

The etch, most of which is still legible, is sort of interesting. It says the saw was expressly made for H. F. Schlegelmilch of Eau Claire, Wisconsin. Herman Schegelmilch was a gun smith and had a gun shop and hardware store in Eau Claire, so this was probably sold in that store.

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Michael -- you're doing it wrong.

That hole is for the thumb of your left hand (precisely because ripping is tough work) -- you take a right-handed three finger grip with the index finger of your right hand lying along the side of the handle.
Then put the thumb of your left hand through the hole and wrap the remaining fingers of your left hand over the top of the handle.

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Originally Posted by Joe Bailey

Michael -- you're doing it wrong.

That hole is for the thumb of your left hand (precisely because ripping is tough work) -- you take a right-handed three finger grip with the index finger of your right hand lying along the side of the handle.
Then put the thumb of your left hand through the hole and wrap the remaining fingers of your left hand over the top of the handle.

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Okay, thanks. That works, although it doesn't fit my hand very well. To get the index finger of my right hand to extend along the side of the handle, it has to be a bit higher on the handle than is comfortable. The natural position of my index finger goes right into the hole, and there's a groove on the back side of the handle that leads my index finger into the hole. There's room in the hole for both the index finger of my right hand and the thumb of my left, but that puts my left hand in an awkward position, so that's not right. I'll use it the way you suggest, and see if I get used to it.

Here's a picture of the right side of the handle. It certainly looks as if it's made for the index finger of your right hand to curl into the hole, rather than to extend along the handle either above it or below it.
Attachment 318460

I can't see your attachment, but I'm certainly familiar with the design (I have 4)

At the end of the day do whatever works out best for you, regardless of the "right" way.

By way of illustration, check out this photo of two of my No 7s. Note that the lower, 28" ripper gets a different handle than the 26" version. That handle has a large opening right about where the (later-introduced) thumbhole model does.

Attachment 318442

Just curious. . . are those Bishops or Disstons? If they're Bishops, does the top of the plate go through to the top of the handle, or is it enclosed? (I think Disston had a name for that design, but I can't recall what it is.) I also see that the 26" has a lamb's tongue, but the 28" does not. Is that because the handle is stronger without the lamb's tongue, or is it just an indication of the time frame?

You mentioned that the thumb hole was a later design, but I thought it was an early design. I see information that shows Disston sold them with thumbholes from the 1880s through the1940s (so I guess it's not necessarily as early a design as I thought it was), and unless the handle on the Bishop I bought is a replacement, it was made before 1900. Not that it matters very much, but even though I'm not a collector, I like to know about the history of these old tools I'm using.

BTW, I'm not sure why you couldn't see the picture, but I reposted it for others who, like me, aren't as familiar with the design of saw handles with thumb holes. I hope everyone can see it now.

Those are both Disstons -- and the enclosed handle is called, I believe, a "cover-top"(?)

Your assumption re the handle difference is correct.

My statement regarding the thumbhole timeline was meant to indicate that there were saw handles with space for a two-handed grip long before the thumbhole was marketed.

btw - I am a big fan of Bishop saws - but there is a serious dearth of information available on them. Here's one of mine:

This one's a B80. Like yours, it too, was made for a reseller

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Here's a bit of information to help narrow down the age of a Bishop saw --
"The George H. Bishop Company was established by George H. Bishop in early 1880s. Erwin L. Schafer places first location of the company in Cincinnati, OH and after 1899 in Lawrenceburg IN."

"Cincinnati - the Queen City, 1788 - 1912" by Rev. Charles Frederic Goss, 1912

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Originally Posted by Joe Bailey

btw - I am a big fan of Bishop saws - but there is a serious dearth of information available on them.

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You got that right! I don't know of much of anything beyond what's on the wkfinetools.com site. The 1899 date is one good milestone because all the etches I've ever seen mention either Cincinnati or Lawrenceburg, but I'm not even sure when the company shut down. They were still in business in 1915, but I don't know much more than that. I live in Indianapolis, and maybe one of these days I'll check to see if there's anything at the Indiana State Library or Indiana Historical Society. I once checked for information about E.C. Atkins & Co., but didn't find much beyond some catalogs and a copy of a speech given by the president of Atkins to a local Rotary club meeting sometime in the 1930's. I doubt that I'd have any more luck with Bishop, but it's worth a shot.

Schaffer's book gives the following dates: Cincinnatti, OH 1882-99; Lawrenceburg, IN 1899-1920, Ohlen-Bishop (Lawrenceburg, IN) 1920-38.

I'd be interested in any additional light you can shed on this company's history.

I have the Ohlen-Bishop 60 page publication "Saw Efficiency", copyright 1937 by the Ohlen-Bishop Company, Columbus Ohio
(maybe Columbus was their head office, as a leftover from the Columbus location of James Ohlen Co 1852-1865 and James Ohlen & Sons 1865-1920

Most of the handsaws pictured in the product catalogue sections of this booklet are pictured with the old "Geo H Bishop & Co, Cincinatti" "greyhound" etch, so it seems possible that this etch/product-line continued to be used long after 1899 when Bishop is reported to have moved from Cincinatti to Lawrenceburg, and maybe well after the 1920 amalgamation into Ohlen-Bishop Co.
I've never seen a Bishop-Lawrenceburg medallion, or an Ohlen-Bishop medallion. Does anyone have one ??

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Originally Posted by Rob Paul

I've never seen a Bishop-Lawrenceburg medallion, or an Ohlen-Bishop medallion. Does anyone have one ??

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I don't think I've ever seen one either. Here's a saw I sold not too long ago that had a Lawrenceburg etch and a Cincinnati medallion.

I also have two Cincinnati Saw Company saws -- was that a Bishop brand or a completely different company?

Attachment 318501 Attachment 318502 Attachment 318503

Cincinnatti Saw Co., Cincinnatti Saw Works & Lawrenceburg Saw Co. all part of Geo. H. Bishop & Co.

I concur as to medallions -- chances are they never changed the dies after the move -- moreover, several higher end models had warranted superior medallions.