Printable View
I am new to scrapers, just picked up a Bahco Scraper and put a burr on the edge. I noticed that as I'm planing figured maple it's tearing out quite a bit. I'm getting sawdust at times and curls at times. It's hard to get consistent curls. So far sandpaper seems to be a better option but being new I wanted to ask.
If the tearout is superficial then you can use a card scraper.
If it is deeper than superficial, you're likely to create an uneven surface with card scrapers.
Sharper plane, tighter mouth, thinner shavings to get to the point that tearout issuperficial, and pay attention to what causes the tearout and try to avoid doing it. Consider planing in any direction as being in play if it reduces tearout, as long as it doesn't threaten the flatness of the surface you're planing.
It helps to have whatever plane you're using set up in a way that you know it will plane curly maple. this might be a good excuse to build a high-angle tight-mouthed laminated style plane.
Aside, though, it's definitely easier to get a nice hand-finished look by running whatever you're doing through a shelix planer or a wide belt sander to near final thickness and then just light smooth planing or hand scraping to get the same look. It depends on what your objective is - get something that looks hand done, or to actually do everything by hand.
My experience has been otherwise when using a tailed planer. The snipe caused just as much planing as without the planer.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Weaver
Pam
I am just trying to avoid sandpaper scratches (I don't mind using power where available). But I like the idea of using hand tools where they could save time. The concept of a scraped finish (vs pigtails from an orbital or longitudinal scratches from a block) interests me. But I'm brand new to the scraper and so far sandpaper and a block for finish sanding works better. But I've got a feeling it's because I'm still new to the tool. I've not really used a scraper before this (other than razor blades for leveling runs in a lacquered finish).
There are areas where I can't use a plane at all due to not enough room for travel, but a card scraper will work just fine.
A better planer is in order, then, or at least a better setup. I guess it depends on the tools. If I had a power planer that created that much snipe, I'd replace it if I couldn't figure out how to eliminate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam Niedermayer
Several years ago (along with another fellow), I ran 10 QS panels through an old beach 52" oscillating drum sander to final thickness them. It took less than a half hour to fully thickness 10 panels, maybe it was close to 15 minutes. No tearout, no snipe, absolutely uniform thickness, and no lines since the drums were oscillating. What a machine. Took a mm of thickness off of a 20+" wide in panel in one like nothing.
I have also used a buddy's byrd head Delta DC 580 (a big planer, not a toy) to run some figured goods through, and the result was something I couldn't summarize as being anything other than spectacular. The finish was so clean and the edges so sharp on hard maple and cherry that the edges of the boards cut my hands, and they were shiny. I still hand finished them, but someone who decided they wanted to sand goods could've gone straight to whatever grit they wanted, maybe even even 600, and had no issues. I scraped the maple, but if I am being honest, it was a bit less shiny after scraping, even with a polished hook.
If I had either of those tools in my shop, I'd probably use them - sort of took the wind out of me, at that point I figured after tearing out the curly maple with a standard planer several weeks before (which prompted the guy with the shelix to buy it in the first place), that I had the hand up on machines with figured wood. I knew a new wide belt sander would take care of stuff like that pronto, but a planer - I wouldn't have expected that kind of finish.
I was using fairly big planers in the community college workshop. At the point they didn't work all that well (snipe), I decided they weren't worth the cost, money, space or noise.
Pam
It's too bad nobody took the time to set them up properly. All the more snipe that comes out of the DC580 can probably taken off with one or two passes of a smoother - definitely less than most tearout.
The beach sander...well, I wouldn't guess most people would get one of those in a garage shop and have the (3phase) power available to run a big one, but I would love to have one.
I don't know what a beach sander is. As to setup, I think the instructors knew what they were doing, and based on reading I did at the time, generally everyone said that snipe was inevitable. I love it when someone says the reason some machine or other didn't work is that they weren't set up properly, especially when sayer and said machine are a thousand or so miles apart and they've never seen each other. You do know how that sounds?Quote:
Originally Posted by David Weaver
Pam
Pam
First watch the youtube video by William Ng on how to sharpen a card scraper. This video is so good. It also will teach you how to hold a card scraper.
If you have planer tearout that you are trying to fix a Lee Valley bevel up smoothing plane is the best thing that I have found. You would need the 50 degree angle blade. Then go to the card scraper to smooth out the plane marks. Oh, the 50 degree blade must be very sharp and I round the edges on the plane blade to avoid marks. Final some 300 sandpaper on a flat block to finish.
I have a powermatic planer with the byrd shellex head and it will do a great job on figured wood. I also have the byrd head on my grizzly jointer. pricey by nice. I use the above steps after power planing.
It sounds like I've seen machines that don't snipe much, that's what it sounds like to me. Even my lunchbox planer doesn't snipe much if the work is supported. Like I said, a pass or two with a smoother, and it's gone - less deep than all but the most minimal of tearout, certainly less than you'd get with a cambered iron in busy curly maple.
I get the sense that you haven't worked with machines much if you believe that snipe that would "create more work" using a machine than hand planes to thickness or face a board is inevitable.
I've worked with machines a lot, like maybe 30 years or so. I did choose that one of those machines would not be a planer or joiner. All the others have been no problem. And this is to say nothing about how boring it is standing there and feeding those machines.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Weaver
It's so nice to talk with such a superior man. You can stop anytime now.
Pam
You might be able to reduce the tearout thru the planer by lightening up on the passes and flipping the direction of the feed.
As for dealing with the tearout after the fact, there are lots of ways to do it, and everyone has their favorite. Card scrapers are great, but do take a lot of muscle. You really just have to watch a bunch of videos and practice. You will eventually learn how to burnish properly. If you are getting inconsistent shavings, you might be rolling the burr too steep or not enough. When you finish burnishing, can you feel the burr with your thumb? You should be able to.
Also, don't try to sharpen 2 sides of the same edge; start with just one. You need firm pressure on the burnisher, but only a couple passes.
I can feel the burr with my thumb but yes Prashun it may be too steep or too much. I'll have to get a feel for it. I'd like to use this instead of final finish sanding (120-220) if I can make it work.
As others have said, William Ng's video is very helpful.
I think the biggest mistake I made when I first started using card scrapers was applying way too much pressure turning the burr. It takes surprisingly less pressure than my first instinct was. I've seen plenty of others make this mistake.
The other mistake I made initially, and have often seen is poor edge preparation prior to turning the burr.
I've had great luck with a card scraper on fairly highly figured maple I bought from LMI for an instrument for my brother. Works well on some of the "mahogany-alikes" with the tearout you get from the interlocked grain that changes directions on you, too.
David mentioned building a plane especially for handling these tough woods. Since that happens to be something I have been doing lately I am curious what type plane/set up others might use for this work. There are some Japanese planes, Pam mentioned. I have been studying those designed to tune plane bottoms with high angle blades. I was thinking about building a plane specifically for a laminated blade at high angle. I think this type plane could accomplish similar results to a scraper? It would seem that the heavier blade might have advantages and maybe some disadvantages. I am guessing that such a plane would need to be constructed and set up with tight tolerances to "scrape" that small a shaving in tough wood, which is why I am saving it for last.