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I am going to build my new house out of structural stress skin panels and was wondering if any of you have experiance working with these. I have lost my major market with the collapse of the auto industry and am looking for a new niche, so I am going to practice on my own house.
Any experiances would be appreciated......
Not much panelized construction around here. I do suggest however, that you look into joining the JLC as they have a wealth of real world info before you spend a lot of construction $$$. Do you have a local HBA? My first warnings about Chinese drywall was from Professional Builder. The JLC had an article re: carpenter ants in rigid foam panels and an early warning about EIFS, but I don't have any first hand experience with panels. In fact the last 3 houses I 'built' were modular, and they were well made.
I believe they are used a lot in the timber framed houses. I was planing to have a timber frame built with panels made in Watertown SD but in the end I bought a house instead of building. I was sold on the panels for their energy efficiency and quick construction.
I have studied and teach my students about SIPs. I think they are definitely the way of the future. As far as getting started I would say get in with a manufacturer/distributor. A good one would provide technical/engineering support and may have a builder list or franchise agreement. I have found that this company is helpful with info on SIPS.
http://www.murus.com/t.sips-overview.html
I have been doing nothing but reading, and searching the net, but I am more interested in , as Paul Harvey would have said, "The Rest Of The Story". Every company out there is selling you on the good points, but over the years I have seen a lot of lies in the name of salesmenship.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Steiner
I am most concerned about trapped moisture, delamination of the OSB which is a marginal material at best from said moisture, the effect on shingle life, air quality/moisture issues in the living spaces. We have a terrible climate here for buildings with huge swings in humidity and temperature, with a lot of days in the winter just around freezing, the days that create moisture problems.
I do not believe manufacturers claims at face value, and can read some "Selective Truth" In all of the advertising. So I would like to talk to people that have no financial stake in their reputation if possible, and in the northern midwest climate would be a plus.
I have no doubt that they will be the wave of the future in some form, I am just not sure that they are at the final form yet. For instance I think the use of OSB on the outside is not at all optimal, but I do not see anyone using other products, like Dragonskin perhaps?
I joined SIPA, and have ordered a couple of books, but there is nothing like personal experiance. I just found an awesome deal on a load of Peachtree windows, but after asking questions on the net, I decided that I should let them pass. Saved me a bad experiance and some mula....:)
Oh ya, I are a builder........
So, while I've exactly zero experience with the question you're asking, I've a suggestion for at least a lead, if not a source of "the bad experiences" - contact your local Better Business Bureau. It's possible you might uncover some not-so-nice stories. Another source might be your state's consumer product saftey department, if it has one (most do).
Larry, I am going to give you the same advice I give my students. You want the experience, go out and get it. Find someone who has been building with SIPS and observe ask questions and maybe even take a job with them. This is the only way you will be able to get a true understanding of building with SIPS. This also might be the only way you can get "The Rest Of The Story". You need to find out how many complaints or service calls is the builder getting after completed construction. I don't think any builders would share that with anyone outside of their company.
Larry, our home was built 5 years ago this January. It is a "hybrid" in that the "great hall" is timberframe, and the remainder of the home looks conventional. All of it is SIPS, with the exception of the garage, and a small portion of the roof. We have been exceptionally pleased. I have several pics of the timber raising and the installation of the SIPS. If you have an interest, PM me with your address, and I can burn a CD and send it to you.
We have been living in a SIP home for the past 4 years. I'm sold on the concept. We are in the process of building another home, it will also be a SIP home.
Build one and then you may agree.
I have a two story house made of SIPS. It is 15 years old, we bought it in May of 2003.
I like it.
joe
The only faintly plausible source for stories about moisture problems with SIPs that I ever saw seemed to be referring to some houses built waaaaaay north. IIRC the houses had ERVs but the residents turned them off; resulting in lots of condensation related issues. Moral of the story? If you have a house designed to use an ERV, keep it running properly. I'd offer a cite if I could even vaguely remember one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Edgerton
I understand that shingles need to be higher quality to cope with the potentially higher surface temperatures if installed on top if a SIP roof without some form of ventilation underlayer. My answer to that is to plan not to use shingles. They're horrible ugly things anyway. Go for a standing seam metal roof instead. Longer life, nicer aesthetics, better weather resistance, safer in fire situations.
John
No need to go to all of that trouble, but I sure do appreciate the offer. I take it you have had no problems or you would have mentioned it. How are your heat bills and what is the square footage?
One thing I worry about is I like traditional buildings with all of the wood that goes with it, and I worry about fasteners not holding, and if it is a customers house the bad press and cost of returns. One of the designs that I am looking at is a reproduction of an old railroad station with vertical board and batton siding for example, and holding it on with no nailers would just not work. The rule of thumb with siding is the nail should penatrate three times its thickness, in other words 1/2" siding requires a 2"nail minimum. The manufacturers say you can do this into 1/2"osb, but that is one of the selective truths that I see with all manufacturers. It just will not stay in place, not only is the skin 1/2" thick, it is osb, a terrible nailer. In my climate it is reccomended that you use a breathing layer of material designed for under wood siding to stop cupping, so gluing is out of the question. I can't have vinyl, it goes against every thing I hold dear as far as a house is more than just a box to hold your life. I like character.
Tim
I am about 60 miles from the north Canadian border, plus I am in the direct path of lake effect weather from the Great Lakes. As far as Climate goes we have the worst swings I have ever experianced. I have seen 114 degrees, and as low as -54 degrees. In the cold of winter it is so dry your face cracks, but in the summer humidity is often in the 90% range. And as I said before the bane of my profession as a builder is those days right at and above freezing that we have so many of. They cause condensation, as well as ice issues that you have to look out for. Ventilation of roof structures is very important here. I do plan on using an air to air exchanger. I would like to use standing seam, but it is so expensive, and unnecessarily so I might add. I am not going to borrow money for this house so I have to keep cost under control. I am going to get the things I can't change later done right the first time, but some things such as roofing will have to be cost effective.
David
I did call the BBB as you suggested and they said "WHAT?". One of the reasons that I want to do this is it has not been done in my area, and I have to build a new niche for my company. My customer base was auto company management, and that gig is over it seems, so energy efficient homes will be the next wave as fuel prices continue to spiral upwards. Once the economy starts to recover I fear we will see inflation out of control due to our governments printing money indescriminately, and then there will be a larger call for efficient homes. I thinking so anyway.....
You fellows that have them, thanks for the replys......
SIP... HBA... JLC..
Reminds me of that bit Robin Williams did in Good Morning, Vietnam:
"Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the VP is such a VIP, shouldn’t we keep the PC on the QT, ’cause if it leaks to the VC he could end up an MIA, and then we’d all be put on KP."
:D
Larry, I hate to tell you this, but I have vinyl on my home. Just too far along in life to maintain wood siding. But, you are correct in that the OSB will not hold Hardy siding, for instance. Of course, there are vertical 2x4 in structural panels, but not necessarily in the gable end panels. I would imagine you could spec those in if needed. You could then attach horizontal strips to carry the vertical siding. Just a thought.
We condition 4100 sq. ft., total electric with geothermal, and our average electric bill is about $140/month. The temperature is constant - no drafts or cold spots, and our ceiling ridge height in the great hall (28' x 44') is 25', so we are conditioning a lot of volume as well as floor space.
Good luck in your endeavor. By the way, our panels on the great hall are 24' long, as were some of the roof panels. They were all set with a crane, of course.
Please check the HardiPlank installation guidelines in regards to use with SIPs.