Biscuits do not add to the strength of a joint, just aid in aligning the pieces.
How many times have you read/said that?
Intuitively I thought that a biscuit had to add strength... However, I think because I've seen the statement I don't know how many times... I've actually started to believe it myself. In fact I may have even said it before.
So...sitting here eating my lunch... I did a search which pointed to a web page that compares the "biscuit" joint to mortise and tenon. Here's a quote... the "Authors compare the two kinds of joints in force-versus-deformation response, tested to failure. Data from a limited number of experiments indicates that biscuit reinforced joints nearly equal the strength of the mortise and tenon."
So I'm thinking...have you ever heard anyone say "Adding a mortise and tenon joint doesn't add to the strength of a joint" ? I think that my intuitive feelings have been vindicated...but I'm not structual guy. I wonder if I'm way off track? Is there anyone out there that can explain why I would be wrong?
See " TESTING OF PLATE (BISCUIT) JOINERY AND ADHESIVES FOR APPLICABILITY IN CONSTRUCTING ARCHITECTURAL PRODUCTS"
http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchi...abstract1.html
I knew something would result
Glenn -
I knew there would be some kind of response to the statement "Biscuits do not add to the strength of a joint, just aid in aligning the pieces."
Given the context of the question - involving the top and edge banding requiring long grain or side gluing - the answer remains the same and is supported by your reference (see 1. Introduction, second paragraph, 1st sentence). So I stand by that.
Do I own a biscuit joiner - yes. Do I use it - yes! To assemble face frames, quick butt joint boxes, and even an occasional shelf within a carcass. They are great for tasks like that. But when gluing up panels, the only addition biscuits provide is alignment. The glue joint by itself is stronger than the wood.
All tools have a good use when properly applied.
Ted
Biscuits are great for some applications...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Clabo
How many times have you read/said that?
Intuitively I thought that a biscuit had to add strength... However, I think because I've seen the statement I don't know how many times... I've actually started to believe it myself. In fact I may have even said it before.
So...sitting here eating my lunch... I did a search which pointed to a web page that compares the "biscuit" joint to mortise and tenon. Here's a quote... the "Authors compare the two kinds of joints in force-versus-deformation response, tested to failure. Data from a limited number of experiments indicates that biscuit reinforced joints nearly equal the strength of the mortise and tenon."
So I'm thinking...have you ever heard anyone say "Adding a mortise and tenon joint doesn't add to the strength of a joint" ? I think that my intuitive feelings have been vindicated...but I'm not structual guy. I wonder if I'm way off track? Is there anyone out there that can explain why I would be wrong?
See "
TESTING OF PLATE (BISCUIT) JOINERY AND ADHESIVES FOR APPLICABILITY IN CONSTRUCTING ARCHITECTURAL PRODUCTS"
http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchi...abstract1.html
Hi Glenn,
It all depends on application. Norm used to use the biscuits all the time to reenforce an edge to edge joint in a panel glue up. In that type of joint, the glue surfaces are long-grain to long-grain and the clamping is ideal. Flat panels glued up in this fashion are seldom structural joints. With this in mind, the biscuit is only there to help in alignment and the added strength isn't needed.
When glueing end grain such as the case in a butt joint, the end grain doesn't create a strong joint at all. This is why we use mortise and tenon joinery or biscuits. Using a tenon (either a true tenon or a biscuit) creates a face grain to face grain gluing situation - even if joining two boards end grain to end grain.
So, the strength is really dependant on need (not needed for a panel glue up) and the application of the bisuit. In the case of a side by side comparison of biscuit to mortise and tenon, this would, without the joint, be a butt joint - terribly weak even with the best glues and clamping.
Hope this helps.
Chris