Milling stock with a combination of hand and power tools

I've wondering about the practicality of my thinking here...

I'm just getting to the point where I can see the limitations of only working with 3/4 red oak from Home Depot, and I'm ready to start designing with custom milled stock in a variety of species.

I have a table saw, circular saw with straightedge, router/table, and a "hammering" bench made of 2x6s.

I'm thinking of buying a jack plane and a smoothing plane, a lunchbox planer, and some stock to make a proper, flat workbench. (I'll learn the planes on the benchtop).

So, assume that I'm starting with rough-sawn lumber, how about this process:

1. Cut to length
2. Plane one side flat using jack and smoothing planes.
3. Thickness plane using the lunchbox planer
4. Straight-line rip using circular saw or table saw with jig.
5. Rip to width with table saw.

It seems to me that with that process, I could mill stock pretty efficiently without buying a jointer. I'm thinking that the handplane work would take a half-hour to 45 minutes for a 6'x8" board, and that I'd get a surface that's just as good for thickness planing going that route than from an 8" jointer.

Does anyone work this way, or have tried it and abondoned it? Am I missing something critical?

Thanks,

-Ted

Ted, I purchase most of my wood rough or S2S. I use my jointer on a daily basis, once I have one face and one edge flat I can then go to town with the TS and planer to get just what I want. Its nice to get wood S4S but the price is getting higher by the day and the thickness is not always what I want. So for me I enjoy milling it the way I like for the project I am doing...

Try it on a couple of boards to see if you can achieve satisfactory results. It shouldn't be hard to find a decent 6" jointer these days in the $3-400 range.
Scott

I don't see how you will joint boards accurately or efficiently. The table/circular saw and a chalk line doesn't do that very well, and the router is only as accurate as your straight edge, which gets iffy for those 7' back rails. The router is also slow and fussy to set up.

You can buy a power jointer, which will also flatten the first face before thickness planing, or you can joint by hand using a 26" beech jointer, Stanley #8 or the equivalent. Stock should be jointed before it is ripped to width, all laid-up panel edges require jointing for uniform clamping pressure, and ripping rails and stiles a tad wide leaves room for cleaning up the sawn surface using the jointer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ted Fullerton

I've wondering about the practicality of my thinking here...

I'm just getting to the point where I can see the limitations of only working with 3/4 red oak from Home Depot, and I'm ready to start designing with custom milled stock in a variety of species.

I have a table saw, circular saw with straightedge, router/table, and a "hammering" bench made of 2x6s.

I'm thinking of buying a jack plane and a smoothing plane, a lunchbox planer, and some stock to make a proper, flat workbench. (I'll learn the planes on the benchtop).

So, assume that I'm starting with rough-sawn lumber, how about this process:

1. Cut to length
2. Plane one side flat using jack and smoothing planes.
3. Thickness plane using the lunchbox planer
4. Straight-line rip using circular saw or table saw with jig.
5. Rip to width with table saw.

It seems to me that with that process, I could mill stock pretty efficiently without buying a jointer. I'm thinking that the handplane work would take a half-hour to 45 minutes for a 6'x8" board, and that I'd get a surface that's just as good for thickness planing going that route than from an 8" jointer.

Does anyone work this way, or have tried it and abondoned it? Am I missing something critical?

Thanks,

-Ted

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Ted,

While all of this might not be relevant to what you want to do, you can extract what is useful to you and applies to what you want to do, and disregard the rest.

Edge Jointing:


Here's one way to plane an edge for (panel making) and other purposes:


You'll need an accurate try or combo square, an accurate straight edge, a pencil, and a (jointer) plane.


Select a face to be your reference face. All measurements of squareness come from this face. Select an edge to flatten. Check the flatness of the edge with the straight edge. Mark any high spots. Trim just those spots with your plane (this will probably take only a pass or three). Use a pencil to place a continuous squiggly mark all along the length of the edge. Take a couple of full-length passes with the plane until the pencil marks disappear. About 2 to 4 inches in from each end (depending on the overall length of your board), place a line on the edge perpendicular to the length of the board (i.e., from face to face), and then run a squiggly mark all along the length of the edge between the two face-to-face marks. Start planing from the near face-to-face mark to the face-to-face mark at the other end of the board until the pencil lines disappear (this should take only a couple of passes). Now take one or two full length passes. Check with straight edge. You should have a very, very slightly concave surface from one end to the other (something on the order of 1/64 to 1/32 inch). Use the try square to check for squareness to your reference face, and correct as necessary.


This will give you a "sprung joint" which will help keep the ends of the board from opening up with humidity changes.


Some helpful techniques:


Set the plane iron for light to very light shavings, and make sure that it is square to the sole of the plane.


Make sure that your iron is SHARP. Stop planing and re-sharpen as necessary; this is much faster than re-doing your entire board because a dull iron caused huge tear-out just as you were about finished.....


Use a three-finger grip on the tote, with your index finger pointing alongside the iron in the direction of planing. Hook your forward hand thumb around the rear of the knob and use the edge of your index finger as a "fence" underneath the sole of the plane, alongside the face of the board (for obvious reasons, you don't want to do this if the face of the board is rough and splintery.....). This will help keep the sole of the plane perpendicular to the face and will help keep the edge square to the reference face.


Keep the tote vertical (90º); this will (help) keep your edge square to the reference face.


Skew the plane slightly if you run into uncooperative grain.


Register the front (toe) of the plane on the board, keeping most of the pressure on the knob, as you start your planing stroke. Transition the pressure to even on both the knob and tote in the middle of the board, and move the pressure back to the tote as the front end of the plane comes up to the far end of the board. This will help prevent rounding off the ends.


Use even, deliberate, moderate to slow speed strokes. Going too fast increases the probability of inducing unevenness (local high/low spots) in the length and of losing squareness in the width of the edge.


You can plane two board edges at the same time. To use this technique, choose the two edges that will be glued to each other and fold the boards together so that the two top faces are touching each other (like closing a book). Clamp the boards together so they won't shift position relative to each other. Plane the edges and get them straight, as described above. If there are any deviations from absolute squareness, the complimentary angles will cancel each other out when they are fitted together edge to edge.


If you have one, you can use a shooting board on shorter boards to help you get a straight and square edge.


All of this appears more complicated in writing than it actually is in practice. Give it a couple of tries on some scrap; you'll be surprised at how fast you pick up the technique and how fast you can prepare the edges of boards for glue-up.


This is only one of several ways that this can be done; it works pretty well for me. YMMV.


STOCK DIMENSIONING:

Hand planing (rough) lumber to dimension is not hard:


Ideally, you need 5 planes: a scrub plane, a #5, a #7 or #8, a #4 or #4½, and a low angle block plane, but you can get away with a #5 and a low angle block plane -- it's just a little harder. (Or you can use wooden equivalents.)


You'll also need a good straight edge, an accurate try or combination square, a marking/panel gauge, and a pair of winding sticks (you can make these yourself). A card scraper (with holder, if desired) is also handy.


Select a board face for the reference face. Use a pair of winding sticks and a straight edge to determine the high and low spots. Mark the high spots and use the scrub plane to reduce them to the approximate level of the rest of the board. Check for twist with the winding sticks. Correct with the scrub, as necessary. By this time, you should have a roughly flat (length and width) board with no twist and with a lot of troughs in it. Use the #5 to remove the troughs made by the scrub plane. (Planing diagonally or straight across the grain in both directions with the scrub plane and the #5 to remove the scrub troughs will significantly reduce tearout in most woods. Then follow up with the #5 by planing with the grain.) Once the troughs are mostly gone, use the #7 or #8 with the grain to plane the face flat. Once you get full length and full width shavings, your board is very, very close to FLAT. Check with the straight edge and winding sticks. Correct as necessary. Finish up with the smoothing plane (#4 or # 4½). Use the scraper on gnarly grain that gives your smoother a hard time, but be careful not to scrape a dip into the wood. Part 1 of 6, complete.


Mark this face as your reference face. All other measurements of square, etc., will come from this face.


Select one long edge, and use the #5 to roughly flatten/smooth it, and then use the #7/#8 to make it straight and square to the reference face. To do this, use your straight edge to find any local high spots and trim those with the #5 first. Then use the jointer plane to flatten. Be careful to keep the edge square to the reference face. Mark this edge as your reference edge. Part 2 of 6, complete.


Use the reference edge and the try/combination square to mark one of the short edges square. Use a crosscut saw to saw (on the waste side!) almost to the marked line, if necessary. You can use the #5 to rough plane it flat and square to both the reference face and edge -- if the short edge is 4 to 6 or more inches wide; if not, then start with the LA block plane. (Chamfering the edges down to your cutting line will reduce tear out on the corner edges; alternative methods are to clamp a sacrificial piece of wood to the edge and let it tear out instead of your board, or to plane in from each outside edge.) Use the LA block plane to clean it up. Mark the other short edge to the desired length (saw it to rough length, if necessary) and do the same thing to the other short edge. Parts 3 and 4 of 6, complete.


Use your combination square or a marking/panel gauge to mark the other (unplaned) long edge to the desired finished width. Saw to rough width, if necessary. As you did for the reference long edge, use the #5 to roughly smooth it down almost to the cutting line, and then use the #7/#8 to make it straight and square to the reference face. Check for straight and square to the reference face and to the 2 short edges. All 4 edges should now be square to the reference face and square to each other. Part 5 of 6, complete.


Use your marking gauge, basing off the reference face, to mark the thickness of your board around all 4 edges. Flip the board over to the unplaned face and use the scrub plane to plane down almost to the marked reference lines (The bottoms of the troughs should be about 1/16th to 1/8th inch above the cutting line). Use the #5, and the #7 or #8, as before on the reference face, to make this face flat and square. Finish up with the smoothing plane and, as necessary, the scraper. Part 6 of 6, complete.


At this time, you should have a board with 2 flat, smooth, and parallel faces, 4 flat and square edges (long edges parallel to each other, as well as short edges parallel to each other, and all 4 edges square to the two faces and to each other), and of the required thickness, length, and width, ready for whatever needs to be done next.


The first board you do by hand will take what seems like an inordinately long time, but with just a little bit of practice, it becomes nearly as fast as -- and often faster than -- putting a board through a jointer, thickness planer, and sanding sequence.

If you have a shooting board, you can use it to assist with steps 2, 3, 4, and 5.


A couple of things to keep in mind:


Keep your plane irons SHARP!! Your iron is sharp enough if you are able to take fine shavings (not saw dust) from end grain pine – even with a jack plane or a jointer.

If you have only a couple of planes, open the mouth up for the initial rougher planing, and close the mouth for the finer, finish planing.


Let the plane do the work -- don't force it.


Skewing the plane often helps to reduce tear out and makes planing easier.

Take deliberate, slow-to-moderate speed planing strokes. This helps maintain the plane vertical to the surface/edge of the board, and gives you better control over the quality of the planing.


To help keep the edges square to the reference face, keep the tote (rear handle) vertical (you can usually do this by feel); you can also help keep the edges square by hooking your thumb around the rear of the front knob and curling your fingers under the plane sole against the face of the board, using your fingers as a kind of fence (don’t do this if you’ll end up with a finger full of splinters).


Try to keep the amount of wood removed from each face roughly equal; otherwise any internal stresses present may cause the board to warp or cup again, after you have put all that work and effort into making it flat.

Expect to get a good upper body work out!


The listed sequence is not the only sequence that this can be done in, but it works quite well. YMMV.


Good luck, and have fun! There's nothing quite like the sense of accomplishment you get when you have taken a piece of rough-sawn timber and turned it into a nicely finished, dimensioned board, using only hand-powered tools.

James,
Thanks for your detailed information. I am also just beginning to work in plane skills and many of your directions are very clear and helpful. It takes a lot of time to reply in such detail and I appreciate it a bunch. Thanks again.

Will

Ted,

It can be done! That is easy for me to say, but not so easy for me to do. I am definitely not an expert. I have prepared a couple of short (16") boards for the planner by hand, because they were too wide for my 6" jointer. I hope to get better at it.

You will want a couple more planes, as James has suggested. I just got the Rob Cosman video, "Rough to Ready" Rob shows you step by step how to prepare rough lumber. It is worth getting, if you plan to go your proposed rout. Rob's videos are available from Lie Neilsen.

Good luck
Jonathan

Thanks for the reponses... Especially James, that one will be printed out and tacked above the bench.

Jonathon, the video sounds like a good foundation as well to see it all visually tied together..

This gives me enough confidence and instruction to go the hand plane to power thickness planer route.

Thanks again,

-Ted

Chris Schwarz's "Course, Medium, Fine" is another good video that covers stock preparation with hand planes. I like Chris's video better personally because I think it has more details like which range of planes can be used for each step, how the planes should be setup and why, when to switch planes, sizing stock while fitting joinery. Rob basically covers his method of using a scrub plane, #8 jointer, and 4-1/2 smoother. Chris's approach is more generic in terms of which tools to use. He even talks about blending power tools and hand tools. If you want to go old school, Jim Kingshott's Bench Planes video (only in VHS currently :( ) also covers the material. I love watching Kingshott videos. His British accent makes it feel like Masterpiece Theater meets Woodwright's Shop.

Wendell

I've been feeling like I might have gotten in over my head. I have two daughters (1 and 5) and they both need dressers. I've elected to try a chest-on-chest design (FWW#81 for basic design). That makes 16 cherry or poplar panels and probably over 80 bf to flatten, dimension, etc.

At 20" wide, I decided to try hand planes for dressing the panels. I bought a LV LA Jack, LV LA Jointer, LN bronze smoother, etc.

Overall the process has been exhilerating from time-to-time but also very frustrating. Previously flattened surfaces turning into tacos, etc. However, I'm learning.

My current sticking point is in thicknessing. I can get both sides flat (although not necessarily co-planar!) but I haven't been able to face up to the amount of work it will be to remove 1/8"-3/16" of material with the LA Jack.

I hadn't really thought about a scrub plane before. It looks like there might be one in my future.

Anybody have thoughts or experience with the LN or LV scrubs? Those appear to be the choices.

Grant

Grant,
I admire your ambition! Stick with it...it gets easier. DEFINITELY get a scrub plane. I have a #40 and an ECE woodie. The ECE is a joy to use. I set for a relatively light cut, but since it is light I don't get at all tired. If you look on that auction site you can often find older ones...they usually have a horn...for little more than shipping.

As far as taco shaped panels:eek: , alternately plane from both sides, removing relatively equal amounts. Don't bring them to final dimension in one sitting. Whether with tailed apprentices, or by hand , I do it in several stages to allow acclimation between sesssions. For thicknessing, after you get a flat reference face, use a marking guage to scribe completely around the board, then plane to the scribed line. Sounds easy, seems hard at first, but even I was able to do it after just a short time. I'll second the videos...at least for me, seeing it done even once is much better than reading about it.

Mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grant Lasson

I've been feeling like I might have gotten in over my head......My current sticking point is in thicknessing. I can get both sides flat (although not necessarily co-planar!) but I haven't been able to face up to the amount of work it will be to remove 1/8"-3/16" of material with the LA Jack.

I hadn't really thought about a scrub plane before. It looks like there might be one in my future.

Anybody have thoughts or experience with the LN or LV scrubs? Those appear to be the choices.

Grant

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Grant,

FWIW, I use the LN scrub; a very fine plane.

The LN has a heavily-cambered, thick iron with a wide mouth. It can be set to take fairly thin shavings or set to remove industrial-thickness chunks of wood. A great tool that will make planing your boards to dimension a lot easier and faster, and well worth the money, if you intend to keep dimensioning your boards by handraulics.

No experience with the LV, but it also looks like quite a nice plane, and, of course, LV also has a fine reputation for quality goods and customer service. If you go with the LV, I recommend that you go with the A-2 iron, rather than the HCS; you'll spend (much) less time honing the iron.

ECE also makes a wooden scrub plane, available at The Best Things and a couple of other sites. It's about $75. It's much lighter than the metal scrubs. Some recommend as light a scrub plane as possible. Personally, I like some mass in my scrub; it seems to help it slice through the wood more easily. No experience with the ECE, but I do have their wooden dovetail and moving filletster planes; both well-made and very good quality, so I would expect that their scrub is also.

Hope that this is of some help to you.

Thanks for replying, Mark and James. I think I'm over my funk now. (For several weeks I thought I'd just go out and buy a 20" PM 209 with a Byrd cutter and be done with it.)

I believe I've tracked down the "tacoing" tendency to insufficient airflow on both sides of the panels post planing. Since I started storing the panels vertically with clearance on both sides the tacoing seems to have diminished.

I think I'll order that scrub today. I'll probably stick with the LN for now. (LV seems to take a "bigger is better approach." I'm guessing that may not be best this time.) The ECE sounds intriguing but I want to try and leverage my experience with iron planes before I branch into yet another learning experience.:D

I'll post progress pictures if I ever get that far.

Thanks again.

Just a comment - for what it's worth - a scrub plane is not a precision plane. While I'm sure the LN scrub plane is a very good tool, you can get a used Stanley #40 scrub plane from eBay for maybe $40 - $50 that will work just as well as the LN scrub. Save your money and buy a LN for your smoother or block plane.

Mike

Ted

If you are near the Philadelphia area the "Philadelphia Furniture Workshop" is having a two day class on milling wood. One day of hand tools and one day of machines. The class is April 21,22. They run a great class. Art