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Just finished sanding (with hand and sand paper!) an 8" bowl. Phew!There has to be a better way?Please guide me in developing a sanding and finishing regimen.My cuts are pretty rough right now, so I end up having to sand a bit. Hopefully that situation with improve with time and practise.Thank you all!
Experience and perfecting technique will help more than anything. Some woods just turn so much better. I recently picked up a load of free poplar blanks for spindle turning. Turns nice, but needs sanding to finish, but even nicer, is that is sands so so easily. I can get a great finish with a fourth less sanding than some other woods I use. Some woods are prone to tear out, and that makes for problems no matter how good you are at sharpening or turning. Other woods almost need no sanding. I still tend to resort to the skew as a scraper. When I concentrate on cutting with the skew, as compared to scraping, I get a much better surface with minimal sanding required. An acquaintance keeps differently ground chisels for different hardness woods. I have not figured that system out yet.
Years ago, I turned a lot of bowls from teak, Even using a cheap Craftsman set of knives, I got to the point of not needing to sand the finished teak. And the finish was just rubbing the spinning teak with a small cloth until friction heat brought out the natural oil in the teak. My source of teak blanks dried up when the furniture factory closed. That was decades ago, and I was away from turning for 40 years. I am still pretty rusty, the current state of tools, chucks and jigs is a bit mind boggling.
Practice, Practice, Practice.
Well, power sanding is more efficient than hand sanding, in part because it is easier to work on problem spots. The angle drill, one main mandrill, and several different 'interface' pads. I prefer firm up to about 220 grit, then medium up to 400. I seldom go beyond that. Favorite firm discs are the 1/4 round edged ones rather than the square edged ones. If you use softer pads on the coarse grits, they just don't cut very fast, and the soft ones are more for polishing than for cutting. Get the best abrasives you can. I, and many others use the blue discs from VincesWoodNWonders. Abrasives are cutting tools, and being able to figure out when they are dull is huge because otherwise, you are wasting time and effort. Slow speeds work a lot better than high speeds. It is a traction thing. If you are spinning too fast, the abrasives don't really get a chance to dig in and cut. For hand sanding, 500 rpm or so max, and if you use a slow speed angle drill, I never pull the trigger more than half way, and most of the time 1/4 to 1/3 of the way. Too much pressure generates heat, which is bad for the wood and can cause end grain checking. If your fingers are getting hot, so is the wood. Putting a pad between the abrasive and your fingers still has the heat going into the wood. Slow down, and lighter pressure. Good lighting is critical. As some one once said, "never take a finished piece from the shop into the house on a sunny day. Sunlight causes scratches." I prefer natural spectrum 'therapy' type bulbs to the white LED lights. I can see better. Other than that, there are a lot of tricks you can use to reduce sanding time with tools. Sharp tools, high shear cutting angles, and learning to move with the tool so you get an even surface. 10,000 more times! But, that's what you said last time.... Well, 10,000 more times..... Practice!
robo hippy
Thank you for sharing your insights and experience!I have much to learn in this area. What woods (that are available stateside) tend to be a good compromise between ease of turning/sanding and appearance (for bowls)?Locally I can source cherry/maple/ash and poplar pretty easily as I have a good connection with a small sawmill who will mill to my specs.The wood is usually just green or air dried.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Hilbert Jr
I turn mostly dry wood with the exception of a few twice turned bowls and lidded bowls. I prefer air dried over kiln dried for the better texture and color. Of the woods you listed, I prefer turning them in this order - maple, cherry, poplar and then ash. Most all surface issues are related to tool technique and tool sharpness/grind. If you can get some tutoring or join a club, it would save you hours of needless frustration.
My $0.02. Invest in good sandpaper. IMO sandpaper is a tool. If you buy cheapo sandpaper from *-mart or other similar stores, the paper they sell is not very good. I have used cheapo paper and wondered why I was getting scratches. Well, it seemed to me that the 220 grit paper had 80 grit rocks in it, which were making those scratches......
I use Indasa paper. I like the grit consistency. The paper also last significantly longer, and that makes the paper worth the investment. I also like Abranet, but it's pricey.
I like Abranet sanding screens rather than sandpaper. It just works better for me and lasts a long time. When it starts to get clogged just hit it on something or blow it out. I use 240, 320, 400 and 600.
Cherry is always a pleasure to turn. The softer maples, like red maple can cut like butter. I cut branches from Maple trees (about 3 inch diameter) and stack them in the barn in winter and turn them that next fall. It might not be totally dry yet, but I have only had a very few pieces check Poplar turns very easily, but the grain is left sort of fuzzy, like flannel cloth and needs to be sanded smooth. Poplar is too soft to be used for anything involving wear or possible dents from use. I purchased some Linden (Basswood) which turns nice but to me is about like cherry. Unfortunately, all the linden in this area was cut decades ago and it survives only in some cities and towns, where cutting it down is frowned upon.
I sand mostly by hand. The way I work on bowls and platters:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashwini Kaul
After finish cuts I use shear scraping or negative rake scrapers if necessary to clean up tool marks. These are amazing. I use them at a fairly high speed and hold them flat on the rest. There is no force so I don't put them in handles. Sometimes I'll hold a scraper in one hand and use the nearly flattened tip as a smoothing "pencil" with a VERY light touch.
Attachment 373677
Then with the lathe off I use curved hand scrapers to remove any undulations or ripples, especially in the center of the piece. When hand scraping always scrape "downhill" and with the grain if possible. Scraping leaves the surface very smooth. I will sometimes use small flexible hand scrapers with the lathe running. Using scrapers like this practically eliminates the need to use coarse sandpaper.
Attachment 373678 Attachment 373679
On deep and not-easily-accessible inside surfaces sometimes I use scraper on a stick - a Sorby multi tip tool with a teardrop scraper.
I wipe with naptha and use a good light to check for surface undulations, ripples, etc. Often the fingers can feel trouble spots when they can't even bee seen. Scrape more if needed.
Sanding: I rarely hold sandpaper against the work with it spinning. I generally sand by hand with the grain, using a soft backing block. (white erasers, Magic Rub) If I use the scrapers first I can usually start with 220 or finer paper. I did a piece recently from eastern red cedar that needed no coarser than 600 paper after scraping.
Attachment 373680
Power sanding: I quit using rotating disks for power sanding a long time ago. I don't like the clouds of dust, the difficulty of control at times, the way it can remove softer wood more than harder, and the way it blurs crisp detail. If I do need to power sand I use a small Grex pneumatic random orbital sander as recommended by Rudy Lopez. This can be run very slowly and gently and is a dream with 220 or finer paper. I have 2" and 1" diameter sanding pads. It's extremely small and light weight compared to a close quarters drill.
Attachment 373681
For larger, flatter surfaces like platters I may use a pneumatic palm sander with 3" disks.
Note: the ROSs require a healthy air compressor.
If I do use the random orbital sander I follow with fine sandpaper on the soft block, 600 or so, sanding with the grain.
Before applying any finish I wipe with naptha and check carefully for scratches using a good light.
For finishing I usually use Watco danish oil:
- Soak in as much as the wood will take for a few hours, wipe off, dry overnight or up to a couple of days.- -
- Wet sand with oil and 400 or finer paper. Wipe off oil and let dry overnight.
- Apply subsequent coats of oil, let sit from 1/2 hr to a few hours, wipe off lightly and let dry overnight.
- Repeat oil application, occasionally wet sanding with 600 then 800 paper, wipe and dry.
- Either buff or rub with 0000 Lliberon steel wool, non-woven abrasive pad, or pumice or rottenstone, depending on the look desired. I usually prefer a soft matte look instead of a high gloss.
Works for me. With fine-grained woods like hard maple it results in a glass-smooth surface. This is not a quick finish - usually takes me a couple of weeks or more. Other people like spray lacquer, pre-catalized lacquer, shellac, Krylon acrylic spray, and wipe-on poly. I use all of these but generally prefer the oil if I'm not in a hurry.
On some woods I use no finish, but hand polish with a cloth and metal or plastic polish after sanding to 1200 or 1500. Most of the time ebony and cocobolo and some other hard exotic woods look good with this. I usually don't go for a high gloss but can be buffed/polished to a gloss. An ebony box hand rubbed with plastic polish:
Attachment 373683
JKJ
It takes all kinds. I do a lot of vases, urns and bigger pieces and do not like to sand! Give me RPM,s. I seldom hand sand more a few minutes on a piece. Use RPM and not pressure--you have no heat if you keep the pressure down and the sandpaper flying by. I seldom go finer than 220 unless finishing with Watco or waxes. Start usually with 5-6" paper on a 3/8" corded drill (the cordless models are too slow) with 80-120 grit, then to 180-220 and finish. On interiors I use a 2&3" pads, drill and air grinders as well. Like the above, a finish ruins some really hard tropicals and I merely sand, buff with tripoli and carnuba. Really hard woods do require all the grits to 400 or so.
You can also wash them off with soap and water, I like to use a hand brush to remove the stubber stuff. I dry them on a paper towel. This extends the life of the pad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Matheny