Setting up ex customer's laser

Well I expect that most of you guys have lost a customer or two due to them wanting to in house laser.

I've a relatively new and local company that does a lot of imports and they have a new product they need laser engraved.
Will be Fiber lasered. Text and in most cases a small logo.

I've done samples and one small order and given them what I consider decent pricing going forward, but they can get large quantites lasered for about two cents in China. And I'm WAY more expensive than that. Figure that. :rolleyes:
(I quoted $.54 which gives me decent price and I include my setup time (all graphics conversion expense) in that price.)
I could get down to half that and be ok, but only text. I don't like to give my time up converting other folks graphics. Guess I could price that separately, but still I'm way over China. So they want to spend some money and do themselves.

They approached me about helping them decide on machine specs and machine needed and potential on training their employee on operation.

Question I've got is how do I price? Set fee? Hourly rate to train? I've usually got some time that I can do this, but both want to be fair and get most out of it that I can as this will probably be only $ I obtain from them...

We've been asked that same question a number of times. We don't help people become our competition, sorry.

If you are considering it, I'd consider the countless hours you spent learning it and charge for the learning curve they won't have to go through. I'm thinking $1000 a day to train. You'll be saving them way more than that if they have to figure it out themselves.

Ouch! I'm with Steve on this one. I'd have to take a hard pass on that training. I've had several customers attempt to do their own in-house lasering. Doesn't seem to last long before they are back. They tend to buy cheap equipment and are surprised when they can't get qualified staff and/or that staff isn't reliable. The only exception was an arms manufacturer who bought out another company who already had an in-house laser dept. The learning curve is steep, but in the previously stated case their staff was already well trained with years of experience.

I'm with Scott and Tim. I'm not going to train my competition.

Laser is not my business, just a hobby.
I am in the renovation and rehab business.
I do not give my sub contractors name/info out and I don't "talk people through jobs"

Nick

I've had guys cold call me, asking if I could help them learn to use their new laser, and umm, could I possibly spare a few customers? Why sure, let me tell you about Helen Waite...

And then there's family. Got one relative who was supposedly hellbent on getting a waterjet business going, but wanted me to provide him a list of my customers... Guess he figured maybe I'd forgotten that I knew he worked in a laser engraving shop for about 4 years a few states away... Waterjet, oh kay...

Like many others, I've lost customers to them going in-house. Most haven't asked for lessons, some have, but my lessons are limited to a few tips during a phone call. Virtually all of them over the years- that are still in business- came back. Usually because the mistakes cost them more in the long run. Many, maybe most, of my newer customers have their own engraving equipment. It ironic when they supply ME with engraving settings they had good luck with.. ;)

Now, as to China's engraving prices, there's still the extra time & expense of going with China, and the prices may work--right up until what happened to one of my promo customers, a proof got okayed that shouldn't have, and they ended up with 25,000 stick pins with the year "2107" on them... :eek:

Not saying I would not answer a question, or steer someone in the right direction, I do it all the time.
And I am more free wit the help on an internet forum because chances are the person asking is not n my area of operation.

But 2 things I do NOT give out:
My hunting spots,
My customer/sub contractor names :)

Yeah, I found out today that it probably won't be an employee (which I would prefer and expected), but would most likely be one of the two guys that own the company.

They won't ever be 'competition', but I severely doubt that either of them will succeed at doing the engraving necessary. I think they can do text with some help, but I don't think either could convert a logo to a usable form.....

I'll probably give them a few hours to help them set it up and engrave a part or two. $500 is actually what they've thrown out. And that looks like about 4 hours of my time.
Ain't NO WAY am I going to try and do more than set up and show them the basics. Nope, here's how you do text, and add hatching, and here is where you import.... Good luck.

I'll be too busy after that.

And yeah, I think they will quickly learn that it isn't as easy nor quick as I can do it. Two years plus and I'm learning how much I don't know every day.

I hear you Kev!
They DO have a good import business going, they supply Walmart with some items, so they are doing ok it seems. Want to branch out in a different direction.
I think that most of their customers are going to be relatively short runs and they see that they can't make much money having me engrave. So...... Jump off a cliff.
I didn't try and discourage, as I told them it is their money, here's what I'd buy. And they went with a higher power machine as they might can do more at one time. OK....
Walk before you run.

Thanks for the comments and opinions. They ARE appreciated.

I learned long ago,
Someone with little talent or gift, can buy the best best software package and equipment and still will produce poor artwork,, While a good artist will produce beautiful things with a pencil.
And this is true in any craft/trade.

I can't believe you're going to help them!

You know Mike, I've slept on it and it just isn't right.

No matter what, I've spent a LOT of time and sweat learning my machines and while I freely post my experiences and offer help here and elsewhere (it's worth what you pay for it in most cases), It just seems wrong.....

I can use the money, got the time, but nope. Can't do it.
I'll give them some help over the phone, but hands on won't happen. Let them learn the HARD way.
Just like I did.

This is 100% tongue in cheek - charge them for the time it took you to learn it, not how long it takes you to teach it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Lifer

You know Mike, I've slept on it and it just isn't right.

No matter what, I've spent a LOT of time and sweat learning my machines and while I freely post my experiences and offer help here and elsewhere (it's worth what you pay for it in most cases), It just seems wrong.....

I can use the money, got the time, but nope. Can't do it.
I'll give them some help over the phone, but hands on won't happen. Let them learn the HARD way.
Just like I did.

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Yep, Younger owner came by a minute ago and I gave him the news and a few parts I did for him yesterday.
Felt a bit bad for a second, but NOPE, I can't in good conscience set up the machine. How would he feel about giving his experience to someone opening up marketing firm......
I told him I'd help him over the phone as I could, but no further.
Thanks for the nudge guys. I post here for a GOOD reason. And Yep, I agree Gary.

Over the years, two specific instances come to mind for me. One, a long time customer who we weren't doing a high dollar amount of items a year emailed me a photo of their new laser, like I was supposed to be excited about it. We had dozens of conversations over the years about how it made no sense for him to buy his own laser because at the rate they were going, it would take him 10 years to pay for a machine. We did 1-2 day turn arounds for him, often did samples while he was here. When I didn't respond to his email, I think he got the hint and I never saw or heard from his again. He left several thousand dollars worth of parts here and never came back for them or asked about them again. They weren't engraved so I had no skin in the game. I guess he felt guilty enough that he didn't want to face us.

Second one, customer for a year, a reasonably good customer from a dollar standpoint (maybe $10K a year) sends me a photo of their brand new fiber laser. I was disappointed because their work was nice. Next thing I know, I get a P/O and some parts from them. Then another P/O. We did more with them after they bought their laser than we did before they had it. I asked about it once and they shrugged it off, said they use it for something special. We're still doing their work today.

I never expected these guys to have me do much. Yeah, I'm cheap most of the time to my detriment, this time I hit them up a for what I should be charging. And I can't really say it bit me, I think in their mind anything over a nickle a part is lost money on their end. I'll see them again, or I won't. Heck I wouldn't be surprised to have them call me up and try and sell me their laser in 6 months. As I've said, I just couldn't do it. He'll get some phone support if he wants it, if not, his loss, not mine.