Domino Technique for Cope & Stick Doors

For those of you who already have a domino (mine is out for delivery today according to Bob:) , and who use them for cabinet doors, what is your technique?

Specifically, I assume one would cut the mortises prior to coping and sticking. Since that takes some length and width from the pieces, are you able to compensate by milling a mortise that is deeper than would normally be necessary? The idea of cutting the tiny dominos to length isn't appealing (or particularly safe without good holding jigs)

Using the domino for cabinet doors, especially large ones, is appealing to me as cope & stick has been proven many times over to provide a joint that won't exactly last forever. With a 1 year old in the house, I'm expecting some real cabinet abuse - he already destroyed a drawer in my dresser (my father in law made 20+ years ago) by yanking the drawer out and trying to do a pull-up on it :)

Thanks.

Pete

Your domino mortises would be indexed to the normal edge of your stile and indexed to the the "visible" edge of your rails if you are combining with cope and stick...relative to mortise depth. This is no different than if you were going to use loose tenons and cut the mortises with "other" means....

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Originally Posted by Jim Becker

Your domino mortises would be indexed to the normal edge of your stile and indexed to the the "visible" edge of your rails if you are combining with cope and stick...relative to mortise depth. This is no different than if you were going to use loose tenons and cut the mortises with "other" means....

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Except that if you mill the mortise prior to the cope and stick, you end up losing 3/8" or whatever of mortise depth, as the pieces now overlap.

I would be uncomfortable milling the mortise after the coping operation

Pete

That's why I said you need to index the Domino mortise depth off the visible edge of the rail...IE, the edge once the "stick" has been cut. You'll increase the depth on that side by the depth of the "stick".

I may be missing something here, but why would you need a loose tenon on a cope and stick door frame?

I had planned on putting this in the new manual, but I think I forgot to during the last rush to get it complete.

It makes no difference whether you mill these before or after machining your profiles. You just need to compensate for the overlap of the pieces by plunging deeper than normal. You could plunge both sides 5 mm deeper and keep the domino centered in the joint, or you could plunge the cope-side normal and plunge the stick-side 10 mm deeper.

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Originally Posted by Jim Becker

That's why I said you need to index the Domino mortise depth off the visible edge of the rail...IE, the edge once the "stick" has been cut. You'll increase the depth on that side by the depth of the "stick".

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Thanks. That was my question. I didn't know if the Domino would let me plunge deeper or not.

I have it in a box behind me, so I'll get to try it out this weekend :)

Edit: Jim, looking back at your original answer, I originally misinterpreted what you said. Thanks for answering the question :)

Pete

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Originally Posted by Cody Colston

I may be missing something here, but why would you need a loose tenon on a cope and stick door frame?

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A cope and stick joint is a pretty weak joint unless you glue plywood in there. This is especially important in larger doors (like pantries). I've already seen the destruction my 1 year old can wreak without even trying :)

It may be overkill for a mass-produced kitchen, but this has been my baby, so I'm going to take the extra step on this.

Various magazine articles and books have shown just how week a straight cope and stick joint is. However, it is usally sufficient for "normal" kitchen usage over the typical lifespan of kitchen cabinets.

Pete

Thanks for the explanation. I guess I overrated the strength of the cope and stick joint. Oh well. :)

So how wide of a mortise/ tennon were you planning on using Pete?


Interesting technique.

I've lost 1 cabinet door over the years, at the joint, due to a 12 year old that was big for his age, leaning heavily on the door, then lost his balance, with it open all the way.

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Originally Posted by Steve Clardy

So how wide of a mortise/ tennon were you planning on using Pete?

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Not sure yet. Looking in the box behind me, the 8mm and 10mm are larger than you would make a normal tenon (going by the rule of thirds) The 6mm is a little shy of 1/4", so I'll probably go with one of those.

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Originally Posted by Steve Clardy

Interesting technique.

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Thanks. I wish I could take credit for it, but lots of folks have been doing loose tenons with rail/stile bits cope/stick joings in the past. I just think (assuming it will work) the domino will make it easier/faster.

In fact, I'm poking through the supplemental manual as I reply here, and what's that I see on Page 16? Well, it's how to use the domino to reinforce a cope & stick joint. :p

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Originally Posted by Steve Clardy

I've lost 1 cabinet door over the years, at the joint, due to a 12 year old that was big for his age, leaning heavily on the door, then lost his balance, with it open all the way.

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Yeah, I can see that happening :)

Pete

Good Mornhing,

I am pretty sure this is in the much anticipated, soon to be released

manual by Jerry work.

And, what Jim, said.

Per

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Originally Posted by Pete Brown

A cope and stick joint is a pretty weak joint unless you glue plywood in there. This is especially important in larger doors (like pantries).

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For large doors, I would agree that cope and stick might not be adequate, but in general, there is a lot of glue area and the joint is generally strong. Virtually all commercial cabinet doors use cope and stick for assembly.