Just from what a few friends have experienced.
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Just from what a few friends have experienced.
As a practical matter, you may be right. But there is no technical reason it's not allowed. As Steve said, you could ask specifically what portion of the NEC the inspector believes is being violated. There is no blanket prohibition against multiple 240v receptacles. Your inspector may have been getting confused about what constitutes a "dedicated circuit", but even then, you are allowed multiple outlets. For instance, you might have a 50A 240V welder that you wish to use at different positions in your garage - you are certainly permitted to install several outlets on the same circuit to support this "dedicated" load. In the OP's case, neither load is large enough to qualify as dedicated, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Anguiano
Ultimately, ask: Is it safe? Even if the OP adds 20 outlets onto this single circuit, the worst thing that can happen is that he turns too many loads on simultaneously, tripping the breaker.
Remember: The function of the breaker is NOT to protect the load! Only to protect the wire and receptacle.
I hear ya, just saying good practice.
Multiple receptacles on a 240 volt circuit is neither poor practise nor prohibitted by code. There are maximum number of devices per circuit allowed, in Canada it's 12.
Many 240 volt loads are a few amperes at best, such as my stock feeder and drill press.
All of my shop equipment except for the cyclone share a single multi-wire branch circuit to power 120V and 240V machines, the smallest being my stock feeder, the largest the 4HP motors on my saw/shaper and jointer/planer...........Regards, Rod.
That's great, saves on your amp draw if you can have your smaller machines using 240V. In those instances yes for sure... but these instances only come up in a workshop. We woodworkers are a rare breed in using our residential homes as industrial workshops that from some pictures ive seen on here rival professional worksites. They are rarely if at all come up in your typical residential home.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan
Which is where the mindset of the local authority/inspector comes into play. One authority's assumption might be that if a shop has more than one 240 volt machine, they'll be used simultaneously and will exceed the capacity of a single circuit. Another authority might assume that it's a home/hobby shop and no matter how many machines are present, there's normally only one operator and one circuit is adequate. Hence why it seems like a good idea to make a phone call early in the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Anguiano
Unless you are installing some BIG machines on relatively small circuits, the inspector is always going to be wrong to complain about this. If I added up the food processor, mixer, toaster, coffee maker, etc on my kitchen counter, I'd be WAY over the 20A rating of that shared circuit. But just like for the 240V circuits in the shop, the worst thing that can happen is that the breaker trips to protect the wire, just as it's supposed to. I may get sick of nuisance tripping of the breaker and decide to install another circuit, but that's a convenience issue, not a safety one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Harms
That is what I did in my shop (three 30A outlets with three 30A 220V extension cords). Be sure to sit down before you price out the cost of the plugs & wire (not cheap). Good deals can be found on Ebay. I got some heavier duty wire because it was going to be dragged and stepped on repeatedly (600V 30A wire, like this stuff). Most big box stores sell it by the foot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Alkureishi
There seems to be mental hang up of 220 vs. 110. No difference. Breaker properly sized to protect the wire (and the idiot). I ran two 220V circuits to multiple outlets in my shop. Inspected and approved, no problem. I also ran a dedicated 220 to the compressor and one to the dust collector. Only because I knew they would run when other 220 tools are running. Looking back, I think I could combine those two 220 circuits into one as I only operate one tool at a time.
You're right. But unless you want to get into a peeing contest with "City Hall"...........Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Friedrichs
Well as they said in school, no matter what the code book says, the inspector is always right. And if you really want to piss him off dig out your copy of the code and challenge him on it. However as Dan mentioned asking for clarification of the violation never hurts.
How far from your breaker box to your garage?
Is the garage connected or detached from the house?
How big is your conduit?
I wouldn't be messing with extension cords all over the place. I do that a lot just because I have them left over from when I used to do lighting for documentary videos. Portable subpanel that I would plug into a dryer or range outlet. Hundreds and hundreds of feet of 10 and 12 gauge heavy duty safety cord with twist lock connectors. It is just no fun, and very expensive. It would be cheaper to just pull everything from the conduit and run some 6 or 8 gauge to a subpanel in your garage. If your conduit is metel and buried you would only need 3 wires, 2 hot and a neutral. Otherwise if the garage is separate from the house or the conduit isn't metal or grounded you will need to add a 4th. for earth ground and drive some ground rods.
Talk to your local inspector first and find out what he want's then wire the place so you can use it.
One last thing, for those of you who are tired of fighting with your extension cords when you are not using them, store them in 5 gallon paint buckets. Cut a largish hole in the lid 8 inches or so, then just feed the cord into the bucket letting the heavy cord curl around the inside. Goes in fast, comes out faster and untangled and you can stack the buckets in a corner when not in use.
Robert
I sure hope they don't say that in school, because it is not true. Far too many people believe that an inspector is the AHJ. He is not the AHJ. He is an employee of the AHJ, and many times not even that. He is not permitted to change local ordinances at whim. He is not permitted to enforce aspects that are not controlled by local ordinance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Maine
There have been several previous comments about how some jurisdictions do not allow multiple 240 volt receptacles on a circuit. To date, I have yet to find one of these mythical towns. There is a good reason for that. That's because it is such an uncommon occurrence outside of a workshop that the town is not likely to spend the time writing an amendment for an uncommon situation.
What does happen, however, is people keep repeating anecdotal stories where someone else told them of such occurrence, or even as a result of misunderstanding a directive from a local inspector. The most common example of the latter is that they wanted to tie into a circuit that is required to be dedicated, but they misunderstood it to mean that this applied to all circuits.
The NEC does not make a distinction between 120-volt and 240-volt circuits, and it is very unlikely to come across a local amendment that would bother to do so either.
In my shop, I have duplex receptacles for 220V x 15 amp and 20amp circuits.. I can plug 2 tools into one receptacle, with one breaker, no different than a duplex 115V.. 30 amp is where the plugs are just too big for a duplex receptacle..
Running multiple receptacles off a single breaker is completely legal.. Its a myth.
In my shop, a 5hp Bandsaw and 5hp Planer share a circuit.. The Dust collector and Compressor have dedicated circuits.. Phase converter has a dedicated 100 amp circuit for obvious reasons..
240V is not magic.. There are applications where a GFI may be required or at least a really good idea.. In Europe, every plug and light in the house is 220V .. They certainly don't run a breaker for each 60 watt bulb..
Its really no different than in the house.. if you run the toaster and mixer off the same circuit, the breaker may blow.. If I run my Bandsaw and planer at the same time, the breaker may blow.. You reset the breaker and stop running both at the same time ..
No problem here with mutiple 220 outlets. :D
Ed
Attachment 237438
I concur, no problem here with multiple 220 outlets on one breaker and it passed inspection.
I also don't understand why it is an inspector's business what machines I have and the amperage? The inspector is often a paid subcontractor of the Building Department and they are there to inspect the power distribution. The receptables, wires, breakers, and installation should all work together. As far as whether I have a 5HP or 3HP TS, and which circuit it is connected to, is irrelavent and not in the inspector's scope. If I have a 3HP TS, then trade it for a 5HP, do I need to get a permit? No, only if I need to install a new circuit to operate it. If I want to operate multiple tools on one circuit, then the circuit needs to be sized accordingly.
Mike