Personally, I think his prices are due to inexperienced buyers getting into bidding wars. I may be wrong, but the bids look like it to me.
More power to him, I guess.
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Personally, I think his prices are due to inexperienced buyers getting into bidding wars. I may be wrong, but the bids look like it to me.
More power to him, I guess.
Ebay certainly has plenty of those. There are things I don't even bother to look for on there any longer because either they are sold as I want them and are double what I can do elsewhere, or because there will be one or two items that I want in a huge pile of junk, and I don't want anything to do with a pile of junk like that because i'm not that good at throwing things away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Herrmann
Supply and Demand!
Michael does an excellent job on saw restoration and there are those who are willing to pay well for it. However, the selling price on the saws he presently has listed is not as much out of line as something I saw on the bay a couple of years ago - a couple of Stanley 750 chisels advertised as incredibly sharp - a 1/4" and a 1/2" sold for more than $200 each.
I've dealt with Michael several times over the last few years -first , selling him some saws, then sending three saws for restoration. I was extremely well pleased with the results, so I sent five more saws to him, including a 28" Simonds miter-box saw for my Stanley 358. All his work is top-drawer!
FWIW, he always starts his auctions at $0.01.
Richard
I think his name is Michael, and the people who buy his saws say that they're great. He has quite a following on ebay, and I think that some of his regular customers are from overseas. People bid on his saws because he is a known quantity who puts up saws regularly, and unlike other saws on ebay, you know the saw plate is straight and clean, and the teeth are sharp. He has a reputation to uphold. I occasionally watch his auctions with a mix of admiration for his marketing, and envy--for the quality and novelty of his saws, as well as the prices he commands. Never spoken to the guy, but from what I can gather the people who buy his saws like him and his saws. Other people like to criticize him, but they are envious for other reasons.
That's just over the top, unless that was in the days of being able to see the bidder's name, and he thought that people would think the two of you were colluding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv Werner
I don't know how many things i've sold on ebay, maybe 30 or 40. I've never once paid attention to who any of the bidders were.
For amusement, I'm watching the race in price between that auction, and the "Langdon Mitre Box w/Saw in Original Wooden Box", currently neck-and-neck. So you either get a Disston miter box saw that's been sharpened to within an inch of its life, or you get an Atkins miter box saw that may or may not be sharp, plus a Langdon miter box with all the trimmings including the storage box.
I sharpen my own saws and have for a long time. About a year or so ago I bought one of Micheals saws because I wanted to see if he really was as good as his prices indicate. I bought a Diston #7 because I own a few more and could compare his to mine. I must say the saw I got from him is one of the best cutting saws I have used, I have to work really hard to do my own saws as well. He also includes a free re sharpening with his saws so you need to subtract the cost of a sharpening from the sale price.
And that's the cheapest of the 4 saws he has listed! Must be nice ones.
Michael does an excellent job sharpening saws, I don't think anyone would question that. I have several saws he worked on and they are just wonderful to work with. A lot of guys can sharpen saws though- where he is uniquely skilled is in saw restoration. Earlier this year I was given two saws he worked on by a friend of mine as a trade for some services I rendered. They were both Peace saws, which I'm very interested in. In a conversation some time later Michael mentioned to me that he had to replace the horn on one of the saws. I couldn't find the repair and figured he might be thinking of the wrong saw. He had to show me a "before" picture before I believed that the top horn was completed replaced.
Since then I've sent him a couple of my favorite rare Peace saws for restoration. Two of the saws had broken horns, one had a broken double-loop. Both had wonky plates which I figured would be beyond salvage. The saws were returned with handles that looked nearly perfect- the repairs are invisible. Repairing a horn isn't the most difficult thing to do, I'll grant, but the ability to match grain and wear patterns, and blend the repair to the point of invisibility is rare. Better yet, the saw plates were straight and sharp and the saws worked perfectly. I was really amazed.
I wrote about those saws on by blog here: http://hyperkitten.com/blog/?p=122 and here: http://hyperkitten.com/blog/?p=113
I think the saws he lists on eBay sell for fair prices considering the quality of his work, the amount of time he puts into each saw, and what he has to pay for the saws he sells.
Full disclosure: Michael is a very good customer of mine.I know what he pays for some of those saws :)
Josh
well had to throw my 2 cents in, i cant afford his saws but the ones i do buy on the bay go to him for sharpening and refurbishing if needed, now i have only had saws that were hand sharpened from two other well known people and there was no comparison, i have owned ln's, not as sharp, my medallion saws are close, the only saw i have used that cut nicer then ones that michael worked on is an IT saw from pete taron that i purchased on this site (thanks dave), ive wasted lots of money on saws and tools in general but never dissapointed with his saws, this guy is good with saws period, are they worth the price, i dont know, but isnt that what america is all about,:)
For what it's worth, folks, the two #12s that he recently sold went for well below market price for what they were - and that's not counting the cleaning of the saw plate and sharpening job he did.
When I say "well below market rate", I'm talking about tool auctions and events. #12 disstons that have near perfect totes, are not heavily rust-pitted and are from the golden age (1896 - 1917) go for around $225 - $275. Earlier #12s go for a bit more than that.
That doesn't mean that someone can't luck into a fine condition #12 for $30 at a flea market (I have, and I was very, very happy, as you might imagine), but that price isn't what the market will bear.
If you want a comparator, check out Pete Tarran's site. He does charge more than what his saws would typically go for at auction, but he is essentially a retail shop, and he sells every one of his classic-period #12s within a few days of listing them.
"Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv Werner http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
He always starts his auction at .01. When he first started selling I placed a small bid of $10 on one of his saws. He emailed me and wanted to know why I bid. I told him that due to nothing much happening with his auction, I thought I'd help him out and get some bidding going. That seemed to upset him and asked me to cancel my bid. I told him, if he wanted it canceled to cancel it himself. So he did. He said my helpful bid was compromising his integrity."
That's just over the top, unless that was in the days of being able to see the bidder's name, and he thought that people would think the two of you were colluding.
I don't know how many things i've sold on ebay, maybe 30 or 40. I've never once paid attention to who any of the bidders were. __________________
Brusha Brusha Brusha!
hi guys - my mother told me there would be days like this .....i admit that the listings are a total mess - but "getting flowerier"? geezeomiteyyeah, i guess you're right ... mea culpa .... guilty as charged.look - i cannot seem to find the full text of the above quote in david's post - and i feel compelled to address this issue fully ...... could someone please direct me to the post that this quote came from?it may be that i am just out of touch with the times, but my decisions and personal conduct are governed by strict principles that i simply will not bend and are not influenced in the least by what others may think or money. i just believe it is reasonable to expect that...... when bidding on an item, the bidder would not be bidding against the seller's friends ..... who's only intent is to help increase the amount that the seller receives for that item.silly me.if i recall correctly - marv indicated that this was a common practice among his circle of friends and found my position on this .... "rediculous" .... even after a full explanation of my reasoning.on another note - it came to my attention ... by the person who alerted me of this discussion .... that marv was of the opinion that a miter box saw would cut better - if filed without sloped gullets. he seems to have quite a bit of experience on this subject ..... and i know that he is always quite gracious in the sharing of his knowledge ...... so i would also welcome a further discussion on the subject - however, i cannot seem to find this post either .... i would be grateful if someone could also supply me with the link to it. thanksmichael "getting flowerier" merlo
Not sure where it went, appears to be torched.
Not wanting the appearance of collusion seems like a perfectly good reason to me.
Michael,
After I posted a couple messages here in this thread, I started having second thoughts about what I had written in relation to the issue that took place between you and I regarding your eBay auction, so I deleted my posts. I got to thinking that this isn't the place to be discussing those kind of issues. I felt that I was actually compromising my own integrates.
I will however say this about your response to my bidding on your auction so that others involved in this thread can at least read my side of the story. First of all, I was quite taken aback that you would even question my bidding on your auction. Do you, at random, question others as to why they bid? You had one bid on that auction. I had it on my watch list and didn't see any other bids for about five days. As it turned out, my bid was a moot point, because I didn't outbid the existing bidder. So, again I was a bit perplexed as to why you questioned my bid and then asked me to cancel it. You made me feel as if you had something personal going on in your mind toward me. Prior to that, I thought I was being helpful when explaining to you what sloped gullets are. At the time, you apparently didn't know.
Yes, I did use the word "ridiculous" in a message to you after you canceled my bid. I wasn't referring to what you said about compromising your integrity as being ridiculous. I was referring to how you responded to me in that you didn't consider my intent when I explained why I bid. It had nothing to do with collusion. I still think it was ridiculous. If you had just explained your feelings on the matter, I would have fully understood and it could have been a non-issue. I still don't understand why you would single me out to question why I placed a bid. For all you knew, I might have continued bidding and won the auction.
So, that's pretty much it folks. I really won't be discussing this issue any further here in this thread.
Michael.....Respectfully, if you want to discuss it further, it should be done in a private message or by email.
This thread has run it's course, and then some.
I am closing it.