For whatever reason, powermatic has a fanatical following. I've got a pair of model 27 shapers I'm looking forward to dumping on Craigslist. I bet they'll be gone in less than a week, and will pull $1500 each.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny means
I would rather have an old PM66 than a new Grizzly saw. You look like you are starting with a PM66 in better shape then most. Maybe offer a little less.
that's what I thought and it was 30 years old, not 20. I talked the guy down to $1500. Wouldn't budge off that. I passed, so I guess it wasn't meant to be for meQuote:
Originally Posted by johnny means
Even at $1500 I would prefer the PM to the grizzly, especially with the other stuff included. I mean figure out the price to outfIt the grizzly to comparable. Don't forget to factor in the cost of plywood and time. I know we like woodworking, but making shop furniture is kinda boring.
I have two grizzly 1023s in my shop currently. I think I have less then $1k in both of them combined. I also have quite a bit of time on a PM66 at my old boss's shop. I think the 66 is a better quality saw, but I have literally run miles of wood across my Grizzly saws and they have not given me any issues.
On fixing up old woodworking machines-I have restored a few, and here is my experience. It is fun (for me anyway), you will learn how the machine works in a way you never would otherwise, which I think is beneficial. It is also a mess-dirty rusty greasy, etc., and it takes up space in your shop. It also takes a lot of time, especially if you have never done it before. So, if you could be billing $xx/per hour, you would likely be better off doing that and just buying something that is plug and play.
When buying used machines, age is an inverse issue. Older is almost always better from a build quality standpoint. A 30 year old PM is as well built or better than a 20 year old one, which would be better than a 10 year old one ( if still made ). I've got machines from every decade and some of the same models made years apart. I've yet to find a machine made after 1960 where the newer model is built as heavy as an older version. Doesn't make the older better or newer worse, but usually the older cast iron is ground more flat, the steel gauge is heavier, the extrusions are thicker, and the ease and ability to adjust is greater. I'm not advocating that used is for everyone, but if going that route, assuming newer is better is generally a mistake. Dave
Jeff, that PM72 looks great. Did you run out of the hammertone brown? I'd love to have a 72, but my 12/14 will still pass the penny test almost ten years after the rebuild.
Jeff, I’ve restored a couple table saws (PM65 and a Uni) and other machines, so I have some experience with restorations.
There are plenty of woodworkers who have no idea what’s going on inside the machine or want to know, or who want to spend their time woodworking instead of fixing machines. So my point was, a new saw is a good call for some people.
I have a 74 66 I wouldn’t get rid of for any saw other than a PM 72.
I’d call him back and take it. As it was said age has nothing to do with it. You want quality and the old American tools had that.
it's a table saw. It cuts wood. Buy the one that saves you time and money. I doubt you'll see a difference in your projects, no matter which you choose.
I bought a old 1950s Unisaw I bought a few years ago. All I have had to do is replace the belts. It runs great. It tunes better than any other saw I have had. The top is dead flat.
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Aww Shucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by andy bessette
Jeff, you did some beautiful work, I'd be proud to have one of those in my shop. Can't say that about most new saws, ie that Griz in question. Nothing against Griz, but new tools just lack something, some subtle sense of style that the vintage designers understood. I think vintage tools are inspiring, new stuff is usually not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Heath
I agree with your quote too. Some don't have any experience and are unnecessarily worried they will mess something up though.
I paid $800 for my 3 HP 1996 PM66 and that included 52" tables, The splitter, Powermatic mobile base, two blades (one of which was a fairly new Forrest WW2 that was still sharp as heck), an SD508 Dado set that barely had any dust on it, About 20 bd ft of cherry lumber and some odds and ends pieces that included some birds eye maple. As I was getting ready leave to the seller said I could also have his water stones which were a 6000 grit and a 10000 grit. AND I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA fer cryin' out loud. :-)
Wayne