A new player in the steel spined 14" bandsaw game

FYI - the information was loaded on our website on 11/3/16 at 4:00 PM.

There are machines in stock at our MO location, but are showing out of stock on our website as the new manual is just coming back from the printers. As soon as the manuals come in the machines will show as in stock.

There will be several blade sizes for this new band saw available soon and will be in the 2017 main catalog. Generally when we add a band saw requiring a new size, we add those and keep them on hand for customer convenience. We order our blades in the USA from companies that custom weld them to our sizes and stock them in large quantities for same day shipping to our customers.

FWIW there is an amazing all cast iron 14" walker turner for sale right now on SMC classifieds for $800.

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Originally Posted by Bradley Gray

FWIW there is an amazing all cast iron 14" walker turner for sale right now on SMC classifieds for $800.

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It is gorgeous and someone should buy it!!!!! That said compared to this class of saw it has limited resaw capability, there likely won't be much cross shopping of the two.

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Originally Posted by Van Huskey

As a bandsaw geek, I have my ways... :cool:

BTW since I posted this morning Grizzly has put it up on their site.

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Van is a bandsaw geek? Say it isn't so......

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Originally Posted by Van Huskey

In most cases bandsaw blades bought from retailers have at least one more middleman in the chain so prices are almost laways higher and the selection of blade stock is often lower.

With the blade width question you have opened (possibly unwittingly) a huge kettle of fish.

First, most bandsaw manufacturers state the upper blade capacity width on the widest blade possible to snake onto the wheels and the guides can handle. Often the very largest blade a saw "says" it can take is a pain to actually get on and off the saw depending on the path it must take. That said I would expect the 3/4" width maximum to be conservative on a saw like this and will probably go on without much trouble, but that remains to be seen.

The second issue is what width blade can a particular saw tension properly, since it matters not if you can physically put on and track a 2" blade, for example, is the saw can't tension it properly for use. Further, a blade is not a two dimensional object so the thickness of the blade is also as important as the width when it comes to how much tension a saw can put on the blade since area is what is important with strain, not width alone. So a saw may provide adequate tension for a 3/4" x .025" blade but not be able to tension a 3/4" x .035" blade since the cross section is roughly 40% greater and therefore needs roughly 40% more spring pressure to reach the same tension as the .025" gauge blade. This is compounded further by the fact some blade require more tension to be optimized, a carbide tipped blade will most likely be beat at 25,000-30,000 psi of tension where a carbon blade will work the best at around 15,000 psi of tension. So a 3/4" x .035" carbide blade will need a LOT more spring pressure and thus frame rigidity compared to a 3/4" x .022" carbon blade since the spring pressure will need to be nearly double to tension the cabide blade.

So to answer your question you need to know how practical it is to mount and dismount a 3/4" blade on the saw and then if it can tension a specific 3/4" blade. manufacturers of hobby to light industrial saws do not provide this information, it has to be determined by measuring a saw or using it and getting and educated guess by experience. My guess is this saw will work fine with all carbon blades and all but the thickest bi-metal and carbide tipped blades, but it is good practice to avoid the thickest bi-metal and carbide blades on 14" saws. With Grizzly saws like all the other manufactures you really have to take a hard look at the saw and tension spring area to get a guess. The 14" Delta cast clone saws from most every manufacturer list a 3/4" blade max, while you can usually get it on and off even a thinner gauge carbon steel blade is going to be under-tensioned on every one I have ever measured, this includes ones with aftermarket higher spring rate springs (which one must be careful with). Just looking at what I can see of the specs and in the pictures I expect this saw to be able to tension the thinner carbide and bi-metal blades properly, whether it can on the mid-thickness ones is a question but I would avoid those on a 14" wheel in any case.

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Trick question for you then, when looking into a resaw blade, what is likely to provide better results; a wider blade (3/4") that is thinner gauge (allowing more tension), or a smaller blade (1/2-5/8"), that is a heavier gauge?

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Originally Posted by Rick Cicciarelli

Trick question for you then, when looking into a resaw blade, what is likely to provide better results; a wider blade (3/4") that is thinner gauge (allowing more tension), or a smaller blade (1/2-5/8"), that is a heavier gauge?

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First, I will assume ALL there variables are the same except for the width and gauge of the bands and assume the saw in quesion can tension all the the blades correctly.

The primary difference in this case is the beam strength of each band when tensioned. You assertion the wider thinner blade can be tensioned higher may or may not be the case. The beam strength is determined by tension and you need to know the cross section of the actual blades. So you need the disttance from the gullet to the back of the blade, then multiply that by the pressure exerted on each half of the blade (this is equal to wheel tension or half of spring tension) to determine the tension or strain on the blade, the higher strain will have the most beam strength and will in theory give better results, again assuming all the other characteristics of the two blades are the same. A very loose rule of thumb is the thinner wider blade will PROBABLY have the higher beam strength properly tensioned but one really must do the calculations for each blade (or directly measure strain) to determine this.

A secondary difference is the wider blade (on most guides) will not be allowed to angle off the correct cut by as much as a more narrow blade if the guide offset is the same. Simple geometry.

In the end for resawing you want to get the widest blade that can be properly tensioned but this rule of thumb really discounts beam strength as being the real reason behind the suggestion, to verify this you have to take into account all that I have said above, but again the rule of thumb almost always works since it is rare for a manufacturer to have a more narrow blade in the same model that provides higher beam strength than a wider blade in the same model when both are properly tensioned.

So indeed it was a trick question because I didn't have enough information (specifically the cross sectional area or numbers to calculate that) in order to answer.

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Originally Posted by Van Huskey

First, I will assume ALL there variables are the same except for the width and gauge of the bands and assume the saw in quesion can tension all the the blades correctly.

The primary difference in this case is the beam strength of each band when tensioned. You assertion the wider thinner blade can be tensioned higher may or may not be the case. The beam strength is determined by tension and you need to know the cross section of the actual blades. So you need the disttance from the gullet to the back of the blade, then multiply that by the pressure exerted on each half of the blade (this is equal to wheel tension or half of spring tension) to determine the tension or strain on the blade, the higher strain will have the most beam strength and will in theory give better results, again assuming all the other characteristics of the two blades are the same. A very loose rule of thumb is the thinner wider blade will PROBABLY have the higher beam strength properly tensioned but one really must do the calculations for each blade (or directly measure strain) to determine this.

A secondary difference is the wider blade (on most guides) will not be allowed to angle off the correct cut by as much as a more narrow blade if the guide offset is the same. Simple geometry.

In the end for resawing you want to get the widest blade that can be properly tensioned but this rule of thumb really discounts beam strength as being the real reason behind the suggestion, to verify this you have to take into account all that I have said above, but again the rule of thumb almost always works since it is rare for a manufacturer to have a more narrow blade in the same model that provides higher beam strength than a wider blade in the same model when both are properly tensioned.

So indeed it was a trick question because I didn't have enough information (specifically the cross sectional area or numbers to calculate that) in order to answer.

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Good lord this is complicated. When I finally get my saw can I just have you pick out the three or four blades I'll need to cover all tasks I'll likely endeavor? I think particle physics is an easier conversation to have. ;)

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Originally Posted by Rick Cicciarelli

Good lord this is complicated. When I finally get my saw can I just have you pick out the three or four blades I'll need to cover all tasks I'll likely endeavor? I think particle physics is an easier conversation to have. ;)

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Most everything like this has a short cut which I have mentioned. I find this far quicker to do than figuring chip load, knife marks per inch and rim speed for shaper tooling. As for the bandsaw blades once you understand what is actually going on you can get very close doing the math in your head or better yet you just go by gut and experience. While I haven't yet seen this saw in person my guess will be a 3/4" .022-.028 carbide blade will be perfect for resawing on this saw.

When you get a saw I and plenty of others will be happy to give you a list of blades for the saw. Bandsaw tooling is like any other machine, everyone will have their favorite and there are many quality options. Most can do 90%+ of their bandsaw work with a 3/8" 3 or 4 TPI blade and a wider resaw blade, that said many will also have multiple bandsaws and multiple blades for each in order to come closer to the best blade for each type of task.

Did you ever get to see the new Grizzly? I'm in the mkt for a new saw and was thinking the new Rikon 326 would be the best for the $$. Now I'm not so sure. Most of what I do is small stuff and mostly resaw.

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Originally Posted by Bill Sutherland

Did you ever get to see the new Grizzly? I'm in the mkt for a new saw and was thinking the new Rikon 326 would be the best for the $$. Now I'm not so sure. Most of what I do is small stuff and mostly resaw.

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No, since they closed the Muncy showroom I have a harder time getting to see their stuff first hand and nobody has PMed me about visiting to see their new toy, if anyone has bought one yet. I am in Philly and NYC 2-3 times a year and always used to find the time to run out to Muncy without adding a day to my trip but I am rarely in St Louis and the last time my only free time was on Sunday, when I am in the Seatac area I never seem to have the free time to make the trek up to Bellingham but I may make time next trip.

In any event the 326 is about as good as you can do for the price BUT if you are looking at the $1400-$1500 range (shipped) like the G0817 you need to take a hard look at the Laguna BX models and Rikon 10-353, if you have 240v available the 353 is really tough to beat in a 14" saw with 14" of resaw and a 3hp motor along with a 5 year warranty. While I really like the fit and finish of the Laguna and love the ceramic guides if I was spending $1500 on a new 14" saw the 10-353 would be tough to overlook, and is available residential liftgate shipped for just under $1500 from Circle Saw in Houston. At this point I only have paper specs to evaluate the G0817 but 50% more HP and 5 times the warranty is hard to overcome when the 10-353 is a solid saw when hands on. At some point I hope to actually be able to use the G0817 but at this point it is just a series of pictures and numbers to me and I haven't seen a peep on the interweb about them.

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Originally Posted by Van Huskey

No, since they closed the Muncy showroom I have a harder time getting to see their stuff first hand and nobody has PMed me about visiting to see their new toy, if anyone has bought one yet. I am in Philly and NYC 2-3 times a year and always used to find the time to run out to Muncy without adding a day to my trip but I am rarely in St Louis and the last time my only free time was on Sunday, when I am in the Seatac area I never seem to have the free time to make the trek up to Bellingham but I may make time next trip.

In any event the 326 is about as good as you can do for the price BUT if you are looking at the $1400-$1500 range (shipped) like the G0817 you need to take a hard look at the Laguna BX models and Rikon 10-353, if you have 240v available the 353 is really tough to beat in a 14" saw with 14" of resaw and a 3hp motor along with a 5 year warranty. While I really like the fit and finish of the Laguna and love the ceramic guides if I was spending $1500 on a new 14" saw the 10-353 would be tough to overlook, and is available residential liftgate shipped for just under $1500 from Circle Saw in Houston. At this point I only have paper specs to evaluate the G0817 but 50% more HP and 5 times the warranty is hard to overcome when the 10-353 is a solid saw when hands on. At some point I hope to actually be able to use the G0817 but at this point it is just a series of pictures and numbers to me and I haven't seen a peep on the interweb about them.

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Curious to see what you think when you try it.

I have two 14 inch band saws. One of them is a Craftsman welded steel frame saw that is identical to a previous model Rikon but with black paint. The other one is the Laguna 14/12. The Laguna will easily tension a 3/4 inch blade, especially the thin ones like the Woodslicer. The Craftsman/Rikon will also accept a 3/4 inch blade but it is a struggle to get it tensioned enough and I stopped using them because I was afraid of damaging the frame or stripping out the tensioner threads. I have used a 1/2 inch resaw blade on the Craftsman and it works well, if slowly. I find it so much trouble to go between narrow and wide blades for different purposes that I kept the Craftsman just for curve and scroll type work and the Laguna for resawing.

As has been mentioned, the blade guide system of the Rikon saws is terrible. They are hard to adjust because the adjustment mechanism is built so sloppy that the whole procedure becomes a tedious and frustrating trial and error exercise. The open bearings are a consumable item. They fail on a regular basis. I buy them by the tube and replace one or two every few weeks of actual use. The blade guides on the Lagunas are the best I have ever tried. They are trivial to adjust accurately. I am at the point now where I doubt if I will ever buy another inexpensive band saw with roller bearing guides.

Are you talking about the new Rikon 326?

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Originally Posted by Art Mann

I have two 14 inch band saws. One of them is a Craftsman welded steel frame saw that is identical to a previous model Rikon but with black paint. The other one is the Laguna 14/12. The Laguna will easily tension a 3/4 inch blade, especially the thin ones like the Woodslicer. The Craftsman/Rikon will also accept a 3/4 inch blade but it is a struggle to get it tensioned enough and I stopped using them because I was afraid of damaging the frame or stripping out the tensioner threads. I have used a 1/2 inch resaw blade on the Craftsman and it works well, if slowly. I find it so much trouble to go between narrow and wide blades for different purposes that I kept the Craftsman just for curve and scroll type work and the Laguna for resawing.

As has been mentioned, the blade guide system of the Rikon saws is terrible. They are hard to adjust because the adjustment mechanism is built so sloppy that the whole procedure becomes a tedious and frustrating trial and error exercise. The open bearings are a consumable item. They fail on a regular basis. I buy them by the tube and replace one or two every few weeks of actual use. The blade guides on the Lagunas are the best I have ever tried. They are trivial to adjust accurately. I am at the point now where I doubt if I will ever buy another inexpensive band saw with roller bearing guides.

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Kind of partially where I am at-i like the idea of Rikon because my local Wood craft is very good to me, but Wood Werks is also very professional and they sell Laguna. Were I to buy a 14 Bx or 14 SUV Laguna I would be looking at 1500-1700 for the saw, which would also buy a 17 or 19 inch grizzly or a very nice vintage saw.

The saw I have has not been in production for a few years. I am sure that by now, Rikon has improved the design over my model. I remember having read that somebody (maybe Rikon) has retrofit kits for the terrible blade guides.

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Originally Posted by Bill Sutherland

Are you talking about the new Rikon 326?

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