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They are likely an 8mm and a 14mm.Quote:
The 1/4chisel is very close to 5/16 and the 1/2 is close to 9/16. That's handy at times. They work well enough that I don't feel bad about spending a fin on them.
The Europeans and others are as bad converting to inch sizes as we are at using metric. Often it is usually the other way around, the 1/4" is really a 6mm and the 1/2" is a 12mm.
jtk
There may be a difference in the Aldi chisels of various vintages here in the U.S. My experience is with the first ones available here; probably about 2014. Going through boxes of seldom used tools I found an Aldi set still in the packaging that were dated 2016. I suspect these two production vintages were made by different factories as almost everything is different in the components and execution: The wood is different in the handles, 2014's being a seemingly harder ash or hickory (or whatever passes for those in China. The grind is different at the tang-to-blade taper. The later vintage blade backs were pronounced concave. whereas the 2014's flattened easily. The 2016's also were lacquered throughout. Ok those are the visual differences. In general, the later chisels were , in my opinion, "cheaper" looking although both sold for under $8.00. Both sets were stamped "Aldi Batavia, Illinois", my current town of residence. Their offices are about a half a mile away. Now to a surprising difference in performance.
I use a combination of diamond plates and ceramic stones to sharpen tool steel. The Aldis sharpen readily at 25 degrees with this combination, followed by a leather strop with green compound. I chop a lot of dovetails in poplar and various medium hardwoods. The older Aldis would fold early on in the cutting of the joints. A few passes on the strop could revive them enough to continue working for a while. The 2016 versions sharpened as easily as the earlier ones (except for the concave backs), but seem to outlast the former ones in chopping waste that I have reduced with a fret saw, which is my normal method of waste removal. So my very unscientific method leads me to believe that the steel in the new chisels is marginally better suited to chopping (driven with a carver's mallet) than the 2014 versions. I do have to disagree with the poster who questioned hammer blows to these chisels. What good is a bench chisel that won't withstand a hammer tap? These chisels are definitely not made or configured for delicate paring. I'll now close the turret hatch and wait for incoming. :rolleyes:
Hi Mike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Brady
Mine are at 22*. They pare well enough. I haven't noticed a difference between the way they pare and my Narex Paring Chisels, anyway.
Fred
My comment about the configuration for paring refers more the the profile of the chisel itself rather than to the bevel angle. The Aldis are rather too short and cylindrical to allow the blade to be presented flat to the wood for paring. Paring chisels have longer blades and smaller diameter handles at the hosel to allow the blade to cut at a lower level. Your shallow bevel also aids that. Aldi chisels have relative short blades compared to their handle length. Buck Bros. chisels, back in the day. had very long and thin blades on their parers that allow paring in the middle of a work-piece. They are are a treat to pare with. Lie-Nielsen flirted with the idea of making long paring chisels but backed away from the idea.
Agreed, my BB's are enjoyed every time they are employed.Quote:
Buck Bros. chisels, back in the day. had very long and thin blades on their parers that allow paring in the middle of a work-piece. They are are a treat to pare with.
jtk
What you have seen could very easily be simple industrial process variation within their spec - rather than an intentional change in their materials... The edges of my Late 2017 Vintage Aldi chisels behave more like your description of the 2014 set...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Brady
For example process wise - a chisel that comes out of the same heat treatment process batch a bit harder will most likely outlast the one that comes out of the batch a bit softer in terms of edge holding.... But - the trade off is that the harder chisels are more likely to chip under the mallet or crack when pried upon... There is no free lunch in this regard.
So... Another update to this....
2 more plywood trials...
An old hard Sheffield made cast steel firmer chisel went 4.5x the amount of wood vs the new Aldi and Marples before I finally gave up and quit.... The edge was failing by chipping out - but it was still very sharp and would still effectively pare both plywood and oak...
Just on a whim - I made a chisel out of a new Chinese file to try it out. I tempered it back a bit to help reduce the probability it would snap in half during my trial. It went 2x the Aldi/Marples on plywood.....
So.. This points to these less expensive chisels really don't hold up as well as perhaps some other chisels might.....
I haven't run my Pfeil or Two Cherries to see where they shake out.. And I don't have any Japanese or PM-V11 chisels to test - though I have a suspicion they would run up there with the old cast steel chisel...
Paring end grain of a pine 4 x 4..
Attachment 385969
Slick took care of the worst..
Attachment 385970
From this to..
Attachment 385971
Saw cut was a tad out of square...pared it back with the Aldi's chisel....no sign of any "damage" to the edge....
So I have bought and still own and use all kinds of chisels from Lie Nielsen, Narex, Craftsman,
Two Cherries, Crown,P&W and some old chisels that I have no idea what they are or I forgot the name of them.
I find that the inexpensive tools are mostly less money because of the fit and finish of the tool not because the steel is to soft or hard. Once I tune a tool for the work and material I’m dealing with all the above chisels work just fine.
Now I like and follow Paul Sellers but his mission is to get more people into woodworking using a minamalist mentality. He doesn’t want people to not get involved in the hobby because they think they need a $400 set of chisels. He also doesn’t delve into bevel angles for different types of woods and grains, I think he doesn’t even realize that he is changing his tools for the material he is using. He just does it without thinking about it, once you get your chisel working then a 60 second touch up keeps you working.
I own three different types of planes for making grooves yet I have not been successful in making any of those tools work for me. It’s me, not the planes. My dad used to say “ a good craftsman can make the tool work, so don’t blame your tools”.
Confirmed what the "problem" is that's been driving me nuts....
Shallow hardening steel... My Aldi chisels are harder at the surface than further down... The deeper I sharpen into their backs - the softer they get.....
As a result - my aggressive prep apparently sanded through the harder material on the surface and into softer material in the core...
This is a heat treatment/design problem on their end.... So for me at least - the end of the road for me. Marples will be my go-to cheap chisels.
Hi John, how did you confirm this hardening issue? Do you have a hardness tester? If not, what is your reference? ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by John C Cox
A proper "hardness tester" doesn't really give reliable results when there is a thin, harder surface layer over a softer core... The machine basically reads "bulk hardness".... I am told there are some micro-hardness and surface hardness testers which might - but we didn't have access to any of those. It was indeterminate...
It was super obvious with a sharpening stone and with a file - as the same effort on the coarse DMT plate all of a sudden dug in and hogged off a huge cut where it was slow and tedious prior... With a file - you could see a gouge where the metal was softer transition into a teeny shallow scratch where it was harder....
More of a case of "over-kill".....not sure why one needs to be so aggressive with the sharpening tools....
Why not try to reheat it yourself?Quote:
This is a heat treatment/design problem on their end....
Might turn out to be a worthwhile experiment for some homemade custom chisels.
jtk
Too much of a good thing, right. ;) ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by steven c newman
The thing is - for almost all my other chisels - aggressive prep makes them cut better... Or at least my confirmation bias tells me that... ;). These not so much. Perhaps this is the perfect chisel in that it appears to benefit from "Benign neglect". ;).