Last coat of Waterlox puddled up: what do I do now?

What grit did you sand with?

Is the sheen otherwise good?

Those swirls may have been from a heavy hand from a previous coat. Are they reducing with each subsequent coat? If yes, they will eventually disappear.

Alas, I think you've reached the point of graduation on the Waterlox education. You know all the things to do, and are trying to do them properly. From here, I believe it's a matter of touch and practice. I had similar issues when I was starting on Waterlox, but knowing how it feels and what to anticipate now, makes it like second nature. I find it now hard to 'mess up'. You will too if you keep at it.

To answer your previous question about rubbing in:

I like to flood on my first couple coats and rub them in to the absorby areas. I may stay for 10 minutes on a large table top this way on the first and second coat. This truly is a rub in. This only has value before the wood is sealed. After, your mindset should switch to polish when doing wipe on. If you try to rub in to the sealed surface, you're just going to overwork the surface and get swirls or streaks.

In fact, I like such a thin top coat most of the time, I wipe it on and then buff most of it off. Done this way, I am just looking for an evenly sheened, moist surface, not wet - not even slick.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James Dudley

Hey fellas,

A little birdie told me about the ability to contribute to the site, and I've certainly been helped by you guys. So I'm happy to be a new contributor!

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Welcome to the club. Best thing about Contributor status - chicks in bars dig it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James Dudley

I am still seeing swirls from the application when you view with strong reflections from a window or light.

I'd prefer not to keep adding layers, as I don't want it TOO thick. But if that'll solve the problem, so be it. Or is there another option? Buffing? Wet sanding after it cures for a bit? Do I need to do something now to get the swirls out NOW? Or do I wait and work in that after it cures?

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Couple things.

First - What I am about to say is contrary to the conventional wisdom on how to apply wipe-on [Scott's thing about "a kid wiping the table at Dennys"]. I always fold up my blue paper towel into, like 3ds and then 4ths - give me a pad the size of my fingers. And - I fold it so there is one sharp, clean edge - with no corners hanging out.

And then, I apply it as you would if you were using padding cloth to apply shellac. Even strokes with the grain, side-to-side. One long swipe starting by landing 2" from an edge, and then a short return swipe to pick up that bit.

Works for me - but not the generally recommended method.

Next - You can buff or rub-out the finish with excellent results - can even dial in your target gloss level. But - you have to wait for at least 4 weeks. In a few days, you have reached a "functional" cure to put the piece into service, but the varnish does not reach a full cure for quite a while - and you gotta get there or you will muck up the finish if you were to go after it too soon.

That's what I would do here, to be honest - plant the flag, claim victory, and come back in 4 - 6 weeks to reevaluate and go after it if you choose.

You realize, of course, that in all likelihood, YOU are now the only person who is capable of seeing any imperfections, right?

I sanded with 320. These definitely aren't sand marks (only sanded w/the grain....these are swirls from the wipe finish).

Yes they're slowly disappearing. But I can't tell if the swirls I see now are the same swirls I saw before, if you know what I mean. I guess I can't tell if I'm making new swirls or if these are the "old" swirls from the first wipe coat or two.

The sheen is otherwise good I think. I'm going to check it in brighter light today. But I think it's good. I just wasn't sure if there was some technique for a final rub w/like MS or whatever to "buff" the finish to a totally even sheen. I kinda want to avoid making the finish thicker at this point.

When you "polish" these final wipe coats, do you apply much pressure? Or very little? I've been using very little pressure (virtually none). Just evenly wiping the surface so I can tell it's covered and then moving on. Not re-wiping. Not pressing.

I feel like it's so close to being "done"...and I want to avoid messing it up at this point. But I also don't want to settle for almost perfect if I can avoid that. I feel like getting an even sheen/finish is important. GO AWAY SWIRLS!

Kent,

Waiting 4-6 weeks is fine. I'm not in a huge rush, frankly. I have to have a wall removed for this to be put into place, and we've not yet scheduled that (for a number of reasons). So I have the time.

That's kinda what I figured re: waiting then buffing. A semi-gloss (but even) is pretty much what I want. Plus the Wlox will lose a little sheen over time according to the manuf.

And yes, I realize that I'll see way more imperfections than anyone else would. But you know how it is. Gotta be satisfied w/this thing since I've spent so much time on it.

Ok, I'm going to check this later today. I'm leaning towards kinda waiting for a longer cure then looking into buffing. I may decide to wipe one last coat to see if it gets the sheen that much more even. But my guess is that I'll decide against that. I'll know soon enough.

I vote to wipe on an additional coat. On the 10 or so pieces I've done with Waterlox, I've never had to buff/rub any of them out. When you are building thin as you and I do, then it's not so much an issue. When you lay it on thick and build up, then you may benefit from rub out post curing.

Try this for your next coat:

Apply it on very thin. Then take a clean shop towel, and lightly - with no pressure, buff the surface so most of at you put on comes off. Polish in quick broad circles, flipping the shop towel as necessary. If you feel any pulling, then start with a new towel. Look at the piece in raking light and make sure the sheen is even.

I highly believe this is all a matter of touch. The practice you have here will make the next time a breeze. Don't give up.

lol. You guys should consult to avoid perfectly-reasonable-yet-differing advice!

I'll take a look here in a bit and post the decision and/or results.

So I decided to do kinda a mix of the advice given. And I did a little experiment. Just because I'm evidently nuts.

1: I decided to do one more coat. The swirls were going away lightly with each coat, but they weren't gone. I figured one more coat wouldn't hurt, and wouldn't significantly add to the thickness of the finish. But if it helped the swirls disappear, great.

2: Rather than use swirls, I applied more like Ken noted: long strokes, with the grain. I figured the marks from the application would be less noticeable if they were with the grain.

3: Out of curiosity only, I did a little experiment. On the lower shelf, I applied the Wlox as noted above and left it as I've been doing--very light coat, just slightly wet, no overwiping. On the upper piece, I applied a touch more, but then polished as Prashun noted until effectively dry-ish.

Why did I try that? I figured either route could be "fixed" with an additional coat if needed, so there was little to no risk of an issue. And I knew they wouldn't result in wildly different sheens.

Ultimately, they came out pretty much the same. The lower shelf will be mostly covered up with stuff, so I wasn't too worried if it was ever so slightly different. And I wanted to see which approach worked better. Result: as I said, pretty much identical.

The swirls are now about 99% gone. I'm done. I'm not sure if the one or two very minor swirls will mellow over time or not. They're almost impossible to see unless you get just in the right spot with the right light. They're effectively invisible.

So now, it's 6-8 weeks of waiting until I can work on putting this thing together. I want to make sure the cure is fairly hard before I start installing metal pipe legs and cast iron legs on it.

I'll try to post some pics soon of the pieces.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James Dudley

lol. You guys should consult to avoid perfectly-reasonable-yet-differing advice!

I'll take a look here in a bit and post the decision and/or results.

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Hey - the thing is that there are generally multiple routes to where you wanna go. Certain methods work better for different guys - dunno why, but there you are.

Plus - I will change up methods when I read sumpin that sounds like a good alternative, or sounds like sumpin worth trying once to learn, or comes from an impeccable sourcere, or, or, or............

I think this discussion was nibbling around the margins, to be honest.

Plus - most important - learned this from an executive/mentor at a consuting client in my early days:

"I may be wrong, but I am never uncertain." :D :D

lol. Yeah, I figured either route would work, and indeed it did.

In a weird twist I would have never foreseen, I had the garage doors open for a little while yesterday while I cleaned something else. Just one door. And just for about two hours, while I was present (but outside).

Somehow, a damn bird got into the garage (large detached two-car garage) and ---- on all three pieces of wood!

I got it cleaned up and it didn't seem to mar the finish at all, thankfully.

That is really poetic. I think this is a divine reminder that we should keep things in perspective.

"Swirls? you're worried about swirls? Try a little fertilizer on for size..."

yeah. I had mixed moments of chucking and being furious. I took a little DNA to wipe at first, but that almost did nothing. A little bit of spit cleaned it right off. Weird but true.

Seems OK now.

This project is done finishing but in the assembly phase. I'll post pics soon.

Here's one about a related project (something j made with the "scrap" wood from the top slab).

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ome-side-table

Just catching up on this but thought I'd post what Waterlox says in their FAQ about using MS for thinning or even wiping in case others run into similar problems.

Do NOT thin, mix, clean brushes or applicator tools or wipe wood surfaces with products labeled as: "Low-VOC Mineral Spirits", "Green Mineral Spirits", "Low-VOC Multi-Purpose Solvents" or "Low-Odor Mineral Spirits". These types of solvents are not compatible with Waterlox Original products.


Many of these solvents/cleaners contain up to 50% water and surfactants and/or they are blends of VOC-compliant solvents and acetone. Acetone is not a suitable solvent with our products and any products with water will raise the grain of bare wood.

Look for product labels that read "100% aliphatic hydrocarbon solvent" or "100% petroleum distillates".

Jim,

I am not sure what "low odor mineral spirits" is, but "Odorless Mineral Spirits" does not have any water in it. It's basically another name for "Mineral Spirits". They call it 'odorless' to distinguish it from kerosene, which has odor.

The caveat on the Waterlox website is to make sure that people don't thin low-voc thinners with their original product. That is true.

However, I will go a step further and advise users not to thin Waterlox Original Sealer Finish (Original formula) with even '100% aliphatic hydrocarbon solvent', '100% petroleum distillates', or regular 'mineral spirits'. In theory this should be compatible, but in my experience it leads to adhesion problems and streaks.

I cannot speak to thinning the full-strength varnishes (Original Gloss and Original Satin).

I repeat this, because the names Waterlox has chosen for their products has led to IMHO a great deal of consumer confusion and misinformation.

Hey Prashun,

Yeah, I think I used low odor or odorless mineral spirits, which lead to my issues when finishing. But it got fixed up thanks to this forum!

I'll get better pics soon, but here are pics today of assembling the piece.

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/r...psb84ac359.jpg

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps93e6c3fe.jpg


So far so good! The color of the wood is really great. So rich, especially in sunlight. It's beautiful stuff. The figure (chatoyance I guess it's called) is amazing--the Waterlox really brought it out.

The live edge, which I didn't get a good pic of, looks great.