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I was prepping a Jarrah stock today for my next wooden plane build and had trouble with the front edge of the cutting iron curling over after only a few strokes. By increasing the secondary bevel from 30* to 35* that problem was largely resolved. (47 1/2* bed/ parallel iron/ = 12 1/2* clearance angle). Australian Jarrah has a Janka hardness of 1860 lbf. Its higher density will generate issues on 01 steel if the secondary bevel is not further increased above normal practice. http://www.wood-database.com/jarrah/
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/...psaoe6allw.jpg
As for sharpening advise; 90% of the work is accomplished on the bench grinder by forming a hollow ground primary. If the secondary target is 30 degrees, I will set the grinders tool rest at 25*. If the secondary target is 35 degrees, I will set the grinders tool rest at 30*. For the secondary bevel I prefer a fast cutting Fine Grit Norton Crystolon Oilstone. https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/W...arse-W171.aspx Once the secondary bevel is formed, I then move on to a finer grit polishing stone. To completely remove the last remnants of the burred edge I will then give both sides of the cutting edge 2 to 3 strokes each side on a leather strop loaded with Chromium Oxide paste. My 2c worth of info. Stewie.
The purpose of both oil or water is to keep the removed metal from clogging the stone. More water or oil may be needed as an edge is being worked. On my water bench there is a floor mat from an automotive supply retailer to contain most of the mess. A spray bottle is used to keep the stones moist.Quote:
I'm looking at water stones that are splash and go and after reading reviews etc. it seems possible to have very little mess.
Perhaps I'm mistaken...
Coarse water stones wear too fast for my liking. They also make a bigger mess than the finer stones. For heavy metal removal I have a 4' piece of granite with adhesive backed sanding media affixed to it. My recollection is it currently set up with 320 grit material.Quote:
This is the primary reason why I'm considering moving to stones instead of paper, yes the 100micron paper can cut fast, but it also gets dull rather quickly and more so on higher grits.
Are you using paper since you don't have a coarse stone or for some other reason?
If some heavy metal removal is needed my go to tool is a Veritas Mk.ll Sharpening System:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...35&cat=1,43072
The way these are set up will produce a secondary bevel. It isn't hard to get around this if one doesn't want a secondary bevel.
A flat bevel works fine for me. Many prefer to work with a hollow grind left by a bench grinder. They are easier to register on the stones when free hand sharpening.
For me the Veritas Mk.ll Sharpening System works fine for my woodworking needs and is also used to sharpen garden tools like shovels and such.
Be sure to remember, with so many nuances in sharpening:
Attachment 361172
jtk
I have sand paper and I spray it with water, Messy, but not overly so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niels J. Larsen
I have water stones. Some require soaking, and some are spray and use (Shapton). They might be messier.
I own some Carborundum oil stones (https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/W...Stone-W25.aspx), these are oil stones. Carborundium is just Norton's way of saying "Siliicon Carbide). I use mineral oil. These cut pretty fast.
The Norton India stones is "durable Aluminum Oxide" (https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/W...e-W67C117.aspx)
I am not finding an excessive amount of mess, but, I have a bunch of oil on my stone, and it does drip and make an oil mess, but, less than the water stones. It takes a bit more to deal with oil on stuff than water on stuff. I have much less experience with oil stones than water stones. I am told that the oil stones are more difficult to flatten, but they are also more difficult to get out of flat.
I have diamond stones, but I don't use them much except for flattening my stones. I know people who sharpen with ONLY diamonds.
I have never used an Arkansas stone. I have also heard really good things about Spyderco bench stones (George Wilson I think). I bought one, but have not had the time to use it or even check it for flat. I hope it is flat, I understand it is difficult (time consuming) to flatten, but it really stays flat. Well, OK, I do have one that I use to sharpen a chip carving knife
I have heard it stated many times "I switched to Arkansas stones so I don't need to flatten as much". I do my primary sharpening on my Tormek.
So the Narex chisels arrived.
I've read good reviews all around and they were easy to flatten and sharpen using only a 5 micron paper.
I didn't bother going any lower (in micron which equates to higher in grit), but I could have.
It was easier to get a very sharp edge on them, so I could shave hairs without feeling it (didn't bother closing my eyes to double check though as I'd probably felt something different being cut...).
I started out with a 25 degree angle and after a few light taps with the chisel hammer the entire edge was rolled over.
So I made a secondary bevel / microbevel at 35 degrees and suddenly it worked!
All in all I think it's safe to conclude that it was not the Berg chisels that was at fault, but user error directly related to the bevel angle - just as a few of you suggested.
I have also concluded that for now my set of Bergs which for the most part need quite some TLC will go back in the "Drawer of Shame" and will probably not see daylight until I have a lot of time on my hands.
Finally, I can conclude that for now I will stick with my Scary Sharp system, at least until I'm close to running out of paper.
Honestly I'm more confused about whether to go for oil, water or diamond stones than earlier, which is a good thing! (I think..)
At least I have the feeling that there's a high risk of me investing a lot of money in something I will quickly regret.
I'll probably investigate this further and try to find some video reviews of different stones if possible.
Thank you everyone for your help, it is much appreciated!
Yeah!Quote:
Originally Posted by Niels J. Larsen
Wish you lived closer, you could test out some differences..... I don't care for diamonds for final sharpening because it always left a rougher edge (or so it seemed).Quote:
Originally Posted by Niels J. Larsen
At the end of the day, any of them will probably get the job done for you, so pick what bests suits your style and budget. I usually prefer sandpaper for the really really rough stuff (unless I am using a powered sharpener of course) and then I move on to stones for the more day to day stuff. Well, I think I get a better grind by hand on axe heads, but I am not really good at that by hand or machine; yet.
Just found a YouTube video from Lie-Nielsen simply called Chisel Sharpening which, well, is about Chisel Sharpening :-)
In that video Deneb from LN flattens his water stones (4000 + 8000 grit) several times while flattening the back of a brand new LN chisel.
Is that really necessary to be able to successfully flatten the back of a chisel or is he simply overstating his message?
To me it is rather nice having more than one set of chisels. One set can have a 35º bevel for use with a mallet and another set can have a 25º or less bevel for fine paring.Quote:
I have also concluded that for now my set of Bergs which for the most part need quite some TLC will go back in the "Drawer of Shame" and will probably not see daylight until I have a lot of time on my hands.
Finally, I can conclude that for now I will stick with my Scary Sharp system, at least until I'm close to running out of paper.
Honestly I'm more confused about whether to go for oil, water or diamond stones than earlier, which is a good thing! (I think..)
At least I have the feeling that there's a high risk of me investing a lot of money in something I will quickly regret.
Scary Sharp is a good system. That is until the cost for sandpaper starts to be more than a good set of stones.
My shop is unheated, in the winter time water doesn't work. Any of my blades of A1 are usually sharpened before the cold weather comes along. Of course it isn't freezing everyday so sometimes during the winter water will flow. Otherwise it is to the oilstones.
jtk
I suspect the angle as well. The E.A. Berg chisels are some of the finest ever made IMHO. I only have one and it's a treasure to me.
Best wishes,
Tim
Narex chisels don't round over when pounded they just get blunt. My Japanese White steel chisels last far longer doing the same job, they are my gold standard chisels.
I've never needed a steeper angle than 25 degrees except on some mortice chisels.
Try your chisels on different woods to see how that compares.
If a lot of money is an issue, I'd suggest that you look to pricing the Spyderco ceramics that George Wilson and others have highly praised in this thread and others. I use 'em. I like 'em. I bought from the Amazon web site and they were pretty inexpensive delivered here (the U.S.) but I can't speak for delivered cost in Europe. You will want to look at the "ultrafine" (https://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Ultr...arpening+stone) and the "medium" (https://www.amazon.com/9000700-Spyde...arpening+stone) as the only two you need. The medium only comes in a smaller size the last time I checked and will need a bit of care when using for plane blades but it's just fine for chisels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niels J. Larsen
Other sharpening media are available as shown on the company web site. (https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/category/sharpeners)
For nicks and chips, I still use coarse diamond or sandpaper.
In use, I have a 1 quart (~1 liter) spray bottle of water with 1 drop of dish washing detergent to give a very light spritz to the stone before use. Less is better than more in performance as well as in limiting messiness. Then when done or when a lot of swarf builds up, wipe with a paper towel.
Both my stones came in flat and over a couple of years now, they've stayed flat. I wash thoroughly with Bar Keepers Friend about once a week. They come out with a surface like new.
The thing with waterstones is that they go out of flat faster than than they remove material from the blade back. That's why various sources recommend an upper limit of O(100) strokes between flattenings. In other words: Yes, that is really necessary though IMO it's quick enough to be a nonissue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niels J. Larsen
FWIW I mostly use cast iron or mild steel plates with diamond paste for flattening these days, though I do so for speed rather than for dish resistance (and they're a bear to flatten when they do get worn).
I've started to use the diamond lapping films from lee valley with good results lately. They're super cheap and work great. I have the coarse one stuck to a granite surface plate for my initial bevel grinding.
That's 3M 668X film. You can sometimes get it for marginally less than LV (and in a wider range of grits) if you look around and buy in quantity. There's also an equivalent non-PSA film, 3M 661X. I prefer the latter for anything that really needs to be flat, as the PSA layer adds a bit of "give" that very slightly rounds the edges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Jordan
Paste on iron/steel is better still for flatness, though.
And waaayyyy cheaper, too! A $12 tube of 3 micron paste has lasted me more than 3 years, and I'll bet I haven't used a fourth of it, maybe less. I also got a tube of 15 micron diamond for serious flattening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chase