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I just pulled my BN125A out of it's case and the air diverter was litterly rotted away in pieces in the case. The replacement part is $35 plus tax and shipping. The cheap Harbor Freight 18 gauge nailer is $36. As infrequently as I use it wouldn't this make sence? Wish I had bought a Senco product!
I have both the HF and the PC nailers. Believe it or not, I prefer the HF. This nailer is one of the gems that they occasionally have. If used infrequently as you stated, I don't think you would go wrong in buying it. That's just my opinion. Others may disagree.
PC and HF could even come out of the same factory now.
I blue taped a rag on the top so I wouldn’t get it in my face. Thanks for the feedback. I thought about gluing it back together but it just crumbles in your hand.
Funny how PC quality has changed over time. My PC 18 gauge nailer is almost 20 years old (along with my PC pancake compressor) and works as good as it did brand new.
I have one of those but don't use it because it only takes 1 1/4" pins.
They're all pretty inexpensive now.
I threw one out that had done the same thing last year. I'm not sure if it's a quality issue, or a desert issue. To be honest. Kind of a minor bummer though.
It's not unusual for some kinds of materials to deteriorate over time like you describe. It can happen on any brand of tool, honestly. But I would share your angst about the cost of the part vs picking up a functional whole tool for the same money, especially if you are not constantly using that tool.
That was right about the time that Black and Decker bought up Porter Cable & destroyed the brand.Quote:
Funny how PC quality has changed over time. My PC 18 gauge nailer is almost 20 years old (along with my PC pancake compressor) and works as good as it did brand new.
My understanding is that Stanley/B&D bought Porter Cable intending it to be the homeowner/DIY brand. B&D used to sell an orange colored tool line targeted at use-it-once homeowners. I wonder if Porter Cable was intended to replace that line though P-C drills and saws seem to get decent reviews, they're just not pro quality or intended to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Engelhardt
I've only seen the PC stuff at True Value and similar, Curt and yes, I believe it's aimed at the consumer market, just like Craftsman brand sold by Lowes and Ace, etc., is marketed as well as Bauer from HFT. What's left of the PC brand is pretty much the general cordless cast of usual suspects; drills, saws, etc.
It's such a shame really. They (once upon a time) made such nice tools.
Ive done fine with portable cable but likely depends on what product. Past id have a tool it would be Rockwell. then next time its labelled Porter cable and maybe not quite the same. memory felt the Porter cable was lighter. I could measure the sanders and see. I think there are several of the large portable cable routers. they had really hard lives and still work fine. Memory I did put tape on the speed control switch so they could not move and not sure if that was from vibration or thinking ahead. So ive been lucky with the porter cable stuff I do have.
The issue is there is no "they", it's just a brand name that has been re-sold several times now. There is no continuity of design, engineering, materials or manufacturing, no one who cares about quality over time. Each buyer of the brand name milks it for what it's worth to them, attaching it to whatever product they are already producing, and then when it no longer works to attract customers at their price point who remember what it used to represent, passes it further down the value chain.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kananis
There are no PC routers made anymore, despite the fact that they were the 'standard' that others pursued and eventually eclipsed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Lake
Pretty much right on the "money". I used to hear my parents and grandparents talking about how good things used to be and didn't get it at the time. I get it now.
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Originally Posted by roger wiegand
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Originally Posted by Rich Engelhardt
To be fair, and accurate............................PC started going downhill in the 60's when Rockwell bought them and introduced a homeowner lineup that had serious reliability problems. When Pentair (Delta) got them in the 80's they ditched the homeowner crap and re-positioned to the pro crowd, though they didn't exactly restore it to the glory days. SBD is just polishing the turd best they can.
Problem is most of the time these big old co.'s get bought they come with massive debt along with aging design, infrastructure and more importantly - talent. It's darn near impossible to restore these companies to market leading positions.
I think its a cynical exercise in trading off the name of an established brand. Stanley used to make good hand planes and other tools. Then they were bought out, the product cheapened, yet sales continued for 20+ years because it was a brand a generation and a half trusted. Same with Black & Decker and now P-C. There was a (distant, just post-war) time when B&D were good tools.
Porter Cable had ads in all the good woodworking magazines back in the day, and they used to seem to be the top-of-the-line router. If I didn’t know better (and now I do) I would have uncritically bought some P-C thing when next I was in North America. I still have my Dad’s old P-C router (that we gave him for Christmas) and I am aware that it is as much an icon of a past era as it is of him personally.
Greg, I agree with you about the "old" B&D. My oldest two tools carry that brand; a green corded drill from the 1980s that I use primarily for pocket hole drilling, but also for metal work and and orange B&D 7.25" circular saw that works flawlessly. I believe I bought that in the 1980s, too.
Interestingly, early in my career with the employer I retired from, B&D/Dewalt was in the customer base I supported. The Maryland HQ had an absolutely wonderful and fascinating tool museum that went "way back" in time for all the associated brands that were under the umbrella in that time period. Some of those incredibly stout and all metal tools were amazing works of art! (and probably gave a good jolt when the cords frayed... :D )
first of three worm drives i have is a black and decker, weighs as much as a small car. Jim what routers have eclipsed the porter cables. Since I had no issues and still good with original bearings and a number of them likely not need anymore routers but like to be aware.
Well, since you can not buy a new Porter Cable router, I'd say.. pretty much any solid router. Dewalt, Milwaukee, Festool, Bosch, Triton.. etc.
The PC 690 series really got things moving for the multiple base mid-size router marketplace for sure. Other makers jumped in with some tweaks; PC countered with the PC 890 series. But at that point, the markt kinda became "what color do you prefer"...lots of similar machines; sometimes some unique feature, some not. It wasn't a matter of any of those older machines or even the later PC routers being "bad"...it was just a shift in the market that brought a lot of competition with a bit of subjective influences. At the same time, the company, itself, was evolving as has been noted in this thread. Multiple owners; shifting market focus/positioning, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Lake
I run a big PC 7518 in my router table and it's been pain free since the early 2000s, although I'm not a heavy user.
In the FWIW category...I have the same brad nailer which is also 20-ish years old. I pulled it out for its annual use (I don't need it often but it is sure useful at times) and on about the 3rd or 4th nail discharge the diverter blew apart. I was double glad I religiously wear safety glasses while working with power tools. Whatever polymer was used on this part evidently has a 20 year shelf life. More likely, it was not all that compatible with pneumatic tool oil.
If I recall correctly, the followup to the PC 690 routers, 7529 was a stinker. I don't remember details anymore but there was a substantial re-design that included a switch and variable speed built into the hand grip. The idea being the user didn't have to take one hand off the handles to move a switch. Good idea but poor design/execution. I have a followup 8529 which worked well - separate on/off switch and speed control wheel. Unfortunately the speed control failed and no replacement parts available so I removed it and use an external speed control if I want speed control. Otherwise it runs full speed. I seem to recall other P-C products having speed control issues as well
Porter-Cable is what results when Stanley Black & Decker gets their hands on anything, rather sad, they finished off Delta too, partly by they way they were sold off.
I would not consider the PC7529 the follow-up to the PC690 series, Curt. It was an addition to the range and more aimed at competing with the venerable DeWalt 721 and its Elu predecessor for a 12 amp dedicated plunger. The PC7529 did have some issues...the one I owned was fine and a friend is still using it to this day. The PC8529 was definitely an improvement to my memory, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Harms
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Originally Posted by Curt Harms
Not entirely correct. I believe the 89x was the followup to the 690 series.
7/8529 were more extensions to the lineup to compete with other dedicated plunge routers from Bosch 1613 and DeWalt Jim mentioned. The 7529 had the on/off switch/trigger in the right side handle and you did not have to take your hand off to operate it. However, the safety was non-intuitive. They were basically the same routers except for the power switching arrangement which did change on the 8xxx. Both suffered from PC's dreadful speed controller which you mentioned - as did most of their later routers. Though supposedly the 8xxx received a redesigned speed controller. It was still a POS, just a different pile.
What I read about the 8529 speed control was that it was another victim of the crap capacitors that also haunted PC motherboards and other items. If someone had a failed 8529 speed controller it could sometimes be fixed with 2 capacitors for a total cost of around $1 and soldering skills. Of course I learned this a couple weeks after I threw mine out. The 89X line was indeed intended to replace the 690. The plunge base was far superior to the 690 plunge base I had and looked like the same as the DeWalt 618 plunge base machined for the P-C 890 motor. One complaint about the 890 was that it was taller than most multi base routers and could be tippy when used for example on the edge of a 2X. They had a dust collecting handle that worked better than I expected and helped some with the tippiness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Sabo
What Stanley Black & Decker touches turns to poop.:(Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kananis
Well, I hope not. They also own DeWalt and bought Lenox in 2017. They likely haven’t had enough time to completely screw those brands up yet, although they are well on their way with Irwin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollie Meyers
SB&D owns quite a few brands...and you can add Craftsman to that list.
https://www.stanleyblackanddecker.com/brands
I tend to agree that everything they touch turns to poop.
After they stopped making PC routers, so they could add yet another battery operated tool platform, I try not to buy anything from S B&D anymore.
I have lost almost all faith in their decision-making.
I have to say, they did a decent job with the re-release of the sweetheart chisels... not so much with the planes though. Not saying they're ln quality or even close but definitely decent. I bought a set (long time ago) to replace my blue handled Marples. Haven't felt the need to replace them (although I've been eyeing the lv pmv11 chisels for a looong time).
had to look that up, what is the steel like? My fav chisel bought is Stubaii bought in Salsberg then years later found some here. Have some Berg as well their steel hard, the Stubai from Austria and later here much softer. I like them better even with softer steel.
For all I know their decision making might be fine, it depends on their goals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Weber
Choice 1: Make a very high quality tools that will last for years but will have to sell at a higher price point to support that quality. Because our tools last for years, we won't be selling another to this purchaser for many years.
Choice 2: Make a tool that is good enough to outlast its warranty most of the time. Profit/tool is going to be lower but the purchaser will need a replacement that much sooner. Yes that purchaser could go to another manufacturer but we're cheaper and have wide distribution.
Which will be more profitable? Wall Street doesn't care about the quality of our tools, they DO care about our quarterly results.
I don't disagree.
I was talking about the fact that they already own DeWalt, but took another of their companies know for making routers (not really in direct competition) and turned them into a battery operated tool platform. Now they are in direct competition and what was once the industry standard in routers, is no more.
I know Wall St. doesn't care about such things, but I do, and I'll purchase elsewhere.
Me too. I've only bought 2 cordless drills since the B&D/Stanley acquisition, little one and bigger one. They weren't Porter Cable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Weber