Plug a 70w Helix 24 into my 'welding outlet' (220 on 50amp breaker)

I don't know much of anything about electricity, so I appreciate any suggestions. Today my 70w Helix 24 is coming in. I'm already running a 30w Helix 24 and 30w Zing 16 in my garage. Add that to the air compressors and ventilation, I know I'm pushing the load on the breaker supplying my garage. Plug in one tool with this equipment running and the 20amp breaker trips.

I had a welding outlet installed on a dedicated 50amp breaker in the garage a few years back which I don't use anymore. The Helix has an "autosensing" 110-240 power supply. Typically this type of power supply is something you find in laptops for international travel.

Is there anyway to plug my Helix 24 (which obviously comes with a standard 110 power cord) into my 220 welding outlet? As far as I can tell there is no simple adapter plug that is a female 110 on one side and a male 220 on the other... so how do I make use of that "autosensing" power supply and plug it into 220? Does Epilog sell a different power cord for this use?

Again, any help is highly appreciated.

You would not want to provide power from the 50 amp circuit to the laser by leaving 50 amp breakers in panel. You want to protect the laser against over current. Change the breakers to 15-20 amp double pole according to current requirements of laser. Wiring will be fine as it is already safe for much higher current load.
Autosensing power supply? I cannot see how you could do that just by changing voltage input. I would think you would have to change power cord and where wires connect in laser. Don't see how you could just change plug on end of cord and now have 120 volts on 2 wires where before only on one wire. I caution you to verify with maker before attempting as you could burn up a lot of electronics by doubling supply voltage if you need to change how power cord connects.

Here is my suggestion.
1 - Replace 220 volt welder plug with 4 or 6 circuits sub-breaker box. You can get them at home depot.
2 - Branch out from this new breaker box to what ever you need to power up on each dedicated breaker.
3 - You can also wire one plug for 220 volts either 15 or 20 apm depending on specifications for what you need to use it for.

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Originally Posted by Tony Lenkic

Here is my suggestion.
1 - Replace 220 volt welder plug with 4 or 6 circuits sub-breaker box. You can get them at home depot.
2 - Branch out from this new breaker box to what ever you need to power up on each dedicated breaker.
3 - You can also wire one plug for 220 volts either 15 or 20 apm depending on specifications for what you need to use it for.

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I hadn't thought about that, but Tony makes a good point about using the 50 amp circuit as a second panel feed. You could transfer some things from your full 20 amp circuit to that. Also keep in mind any time you can run 240 volts rather than 120 you cut amp draw in half. Possibly save you some money on wiring as you can run smaller wire. A 30 amp load requires 10 gauge wire which is quite stiff and heavy whereas you could run 14 gauge wire for a 15 amp 240 circuit which is very flexible and easy to work with. 20 amp circuit uses 12 gauge wire.

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Originally Posted by Mike Lassiter

You would not want to provide power from the 50 amp circuit... .

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Mike,
Swapping out the breaker makes good sense (if in fact I'm able to plug into that 220), for the sake of protecting the laser. As far as the auto-sensing power supply, straight from Epilog's website "Auto-switching power supply accommodates 110 to 240 volts, 50 or 60 Hz, single phase, 15 amp AC". When I google more on this, almost all the posts I read are regarding laptops for international travelers. I can see how Epilog using the same engineering could ship a Helix to Europe without re-wiring it... but obviously they would also provide a power cable suitable to that location. All this seems to add up that I can somehow plug my Helix into my 220 (heading the reduced breaker suggestion), if I can find the correct power cable or adapter... which is my question.

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Originally Posted by Tony Lenkic

Here is my suggestion...

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Tony,
If I can't find the means to use that existing 220 outlet, then I like your suggestion to simply turn it into a sub-breaker box.

Thanks Mike & Tony!

I'm going to call Epilog later today to have this discussion with them to see what they have to say about using a Helix on 220. I'll post back their response "straight from the horses mouth".

My laser came without a power cord, and I had to buy a cord and plug to go on it. I understand why they don't come with one. Some maybe have hard wired into a disconnect box like an industrial setting and don't have a plug at all. A 20 amp plug wouldn't go into a 15 amp socket (240 volt) so they manufacturer simply doesn't put one on at all - you provide what your situation calls for yourself. Cord length also comes into play here. You can buy premade appliance cords but typically they are short. I purchased the length cord I needed at Home Depot in the correct size wire gauge, and the plug to match the receptacle I wired for the circuit. I believe you have the ability to use 240 as you indicate, you will just have to connect the power cord wires to the correct post or terminals inside the laser. Everything should be clearing explained in set up instructions in manual.

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Originally Posted by Mike Lassiter

You would not want to provide power from the 50 amp circuit to the laser by leaving 50 amp breakers in panel. You want to protect the laser against over current. Change the breakers to 15-20 amp double pole according to current requirements of laser.

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A breaker doesn't limit or control the current to a connected piece of equipment, the breaker is simply a device to disconnect the circuit in case of an overloaded (think short) circuit, it has nothing to do with how much current is flowing to the device you have connected. You could have a 10,000 amp breaker and run the laser without fear of damaging the laser. If you have concerns about over current then you need a line conditioner and/or a surge protector.

Gary,

If you install 10 kA breaker on 14 gauge wiring all the wiring will burn before breaker will trip. You should never exceed breaker tripping for wiring and equipment specifications.

There may be a serious problem with using the welding connection either as a direct plug-in or as the source of power for a sub-panel. The 240VAC welder receptacle may not provide a neutral connection, but just the two 120VAC legs and a safety ground. If that is the case, then you will see only 2 insulated wires and a bare copper wire going to the receptacle. You must have a neutral wire to run the laser or wire up a sub-panel. It is not acceptable practice to use the ground wire as a neutral wire.

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Originally Posted by Gary Hair

A breaker doesn't limit or control the current to a connected piece of equipment, the breaker is simply a device to disconnect the circuit in case of an overloaded (think short) circuit, it has nothing to do with how much current is flowing to the device you have connected. You could have a 10,000 amp breaker and run the laser without fear of damaging the laser. If you have concerns about over current then you need a line conditioner and/or a surge protector.

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Gary, that is EXACTLY what a circuit breaker does - it limits the current the circuit can draw that it is protecting. My point was if the laser needs 15 amps and the power cord is sized for 15 amps having a 50 amp breaker to protect it is just stupid. The wires could melt and the breaker would NOT trip unless there was the 50 amps that it was rated for being draw. This would be NO protection basically for the circuit wiring. Normally in disconnect boxes you don't have a breaker at the source, it is a disconnect switch only. Could have fuses inside the disconnect box, but would still be protected by a breaker at the power distribution panel. After all you want the whole circuit protected against short circuit overloads not just between the disconnect and the device.

With regard to plugging in a 15 or 20 amp load to a circuit protected by a 30A breaker, there is no safety issue. As someone already said, the breaker is ther to prevent a house fire - not protect a piece of equipment. If there is a fault in the laser, then even 1 amp or less may be enough to thoroughly destroy the electronics. On the other hand, if there is something close to a dead short, then there is no practical difference between a 20A and 30A breaker because you will trip the breaker either way. Breakers that don't protect the device plugged into it are commonplace in any normal house wiring. Consider this. Most houses have table lamps plugged in to either a 15 or 20 amp breaker circuit. If the 18 AWG wire were to conduct anything like the 15 or 20 amps for which it is protected, it would eventually get hot enough to melt the insulation. The same is true of TV sets and other appliances. On the other hand, there is no problem with replacing the breaker with a 15 or 20 amp one if it makes you feel better about it.

The difference in what we are discussing is as mentioned you size the breakers for the size wire of the circuit. While you are correct you do power multiple 120 volt devices (outlets and lights) on 1 breaker I have NEVER saw multiple devices on 240 volts in non commercial applications. In factories possibly, not residential applications. I doubt electrical code allows it, but not speaking with authority as I don't know code.
Water heaters on circuit by itself. Stove likewise, clothes dryer likewise. Each circuit has a specific current draw and everything sized accordingly.
You just couldn't put everything on one 240 circuit as you would need 100 amp rated wire to everything. You cannot run wire rated for less current that the circuit breaker protecting it, I do know this.
So would you WANT everything in your house that is connected on 240 volts to all be on single breaker? Would it be cost effectively? No

It has already been mentioned a few times, but I wanted to chip in: Circuit breakers are there to protect the house wiring only. They are not there to protect anything that is plugged into the circuit. (Of course I'm talking about normal breakers and not Arc Fault breakers or GFCI breakers.) If the breaker is sized appropriately to the wire used to form the circuit, the breaker will trip before too much current can pass through the wire and cause overheating (aka fire hazard; we don't want "toaster wires" in our walls).

The breaker is not designed to protect the device that is plugged into it from internal overcurrent. The manufacturer of the device is responsible for protecting the device. That's why some devices have built in fuses or thermal switches.

Wiring multiple 240VAC outlets on a single breaker is fairly common. In fact, I did it in my shop and the wiring inspector had no objections to it. The only drawback to doing it that way is if you happen to try to use two machines at once, then the breaker will trip. The same is true of 120VAC if you plug in two 1500W space heaters at once. The whole idea of breakers is to protect the structural wiring. That protection stops at the receptacle. What you plug in to the outlet is your responsibility to protect. It is certainly possible to attempt to protect machines and appliances using a downsized breaker, but the chances of actually preventing a fire or destruction of equipment by doing so is very low. As I already said, it takes very little current to destroy electronics under failure conditions. On the other hand, the difference between 20A and 50A is very small when you are talking about shorting conditions. You can trip a 50A breaker by shorting with a single strand of 22 gauge hookup wire. You could probably do it with 30 gauge wire wrap wire, though I haven't tried it.

Edit: Here is another fact about breakers that is worth mentioning. The speed at which they open up is highly dependent on the amount of over-current. A typical 20 or 50 amp breaker will conduct twice the rated current for 25 or 30 seconds and 10 times rated current for 3 or 4 seconds. If you have a problem with your machine and it is drawing that kind of current, then it is probably already dead by the time the circuit breaker opens up.

One thing not mentioned is that your welder circuit is most likely a straight 240v circuit that uses 2 hots and a ground with NO NEUTRAL wire. If you don't have a neutral wire, you are not going to be able to convert the outlet into a subpanel without pulling another wire.

How many wires do you have at the outlet? Three (black, white (remarked as black or red), and ground) or four (black, red, white (not connected), and ground)?

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Originally Posted by Tony Lenkic

Gary,

If you install 10 kA breaker on 14 gauge wiring all the wiring will burn before breaker will trip. You should never exceed breaker tripping for wiring and equipment specifications.

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I exaggerated the value for a point, I would think that the wire capable of carrying 10 kA would be much more than you might find in your house... :)

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Originally Posted by Art Mann

Wiring multiple 240VAC outlets on a single breaker is fairly common. In fact, I did it in my shop and the wiring inspector had no objections to it. The only drawback to doing it that way is if you happen to try to use two machines at once, then the breake r will trip. The same is true of 120VAC if you plug in two 1500W space heaters at once. The whole idea of breakers is to protect the structural wiring.

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I beg to differ about it "being common". Didn't say it couldn't be done, but again NEVER have saw it done. That you did it in your shop and inspector passed it doesn't make it right. I would guess the inspector is really only concerned that the wire you ran the circuit with was heavy enough to carry the amp load of the breaker you had on the circuit. The fact that you are telling us that you trip the breaker when you try to use two machines at once sort of speaks for itself doesn't it?:eek: Was that your intention, when you wired it, to only be able to use one or the other at a time? As you noted about using two 1500 watt heaters at once tripping a breaker, that is why you can only have 3 outlets on a circuit in the kitchen (if I am remembering right - it's been awhile since I wired my previous house) because typically items used in the kitchen are high current draw items. Would serve no purpose to run every outlet in the kitchen on one breaker then have it trip every time you made coffee and used the microwave plugged in that sits on the counter. Sure you can wire them that way, but why would you if you wanted to be able to use more than one thing at a time.

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Originally Posted by Mike Lassiter

Gary, that is EXACTLY what a circuit breaker does - it limits the current the circuit can draw that it is protecting. My point was if the laser needs 15 amps and the power cord is sized for 15 amps having a 50 amp breaker to protect it is just stupid. The wires could melt and the breaker would NOT trip unless there was the 50 amps that it was rated for being draw. This would be NO protection basically for the circuit wiring. Normally in disconnect boxes you don't have a breaker at the source, it is a disconnect switch only. Could have fuses inside the disconnect box, but would still be protected by a breaker at the power distribution panel. After all you want the whole circuit protected against short circuit overloads not just between the disconnect and the device.

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"A circuit breaker is a manually or automatically operated electrical switch designed to protect an electrical circuit from damage caused by overload or short circuit. Its basic function is to detect a fault condition and interrupt current flow"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_breaker

Nowhere does any definition say that it protects the equipment, it's exclusive purpose is to protect the circuit, period.

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Originally Posted by Mike Lassiter

I beg to differ about it "being common". Didn't say it couldn't be done, but again NEVER have saw it done. That you did it in your shop and inspector passed it doesn't make it right. I would guess the inspector is really only concerned that the wire you ran the circuit with was heavy enough to carry the amp load of the breaker you had on the circuit. The fact that you are telling us that you trip the breaker when you try to use two machines at once sort of speaks for itself doesn't it?:eek: Was that your intention, when you wired it, to only be able to use one or the other at a time? As you noted about using two 1500 watt heaters at once tripping a breaker, that is why you can only have 3 outlets on a circuit in the kitchen (if I am remembering right - it's been awhile since I wired my previous house) because typically items used in the kitchen are high current draw items. Would serve no purpose to run every outlet in the kitchen on one breaker then have it trip every time you made coffee and used the microwave plugged in that sits on the counter. Sure you can wire them that way, but why would you if you wanted to be able to use more than one thing at a time.

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Running multiple 30 amp outlets on one circuit breaker in a garage/shop saves on wiring costs. You can typically only use one major tool in a shop at a time anyway if you are working in the shop alone, so why put in a dedicated circuit for each shop tool? It comes down to planning and how you use your shop. Having your table saw and planer on dedicated circuits may not make sense if you don't use both simultaneously; you'll save on wiring costs just extending the circuit to a second outlet and save on breaker space in the panel (which may have a limited number of spaces). That being said, having the dust collection on a seperate circuit from the table saw and lighting is a good idea because you'll use both the dust collection and the saw at the same time.

In the house (residential) is different. NEC does not limit the number of outlets on a circuit in residential work as they do with commercial work (however, in most cases you will want 12 outlets or less). The kitchen and bath do have specific requirements however (specifically for the reasons you stated: you need to run the coffee pot and the microwave at the same time) so you would be violating code to string all your kitchen outlets together on 1 circuit. In the kitchen, you need two 20 amp small appliance circuits that are only used for small appliances (no lighting).

Generally the following get their own dedicated circuit: range, wall oven, water heater, clothes washer, dryer, garbage disposal, dishwasher, furnace, well pump, permanently connected appliances (like heaters), permanently connected motors greater than 1/8 hp. In a shop setting, since your planer and table saw have plugs, they are not considered permanently connected and don't need dedicated circuits.

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"A circuit breaker is a manually or automatically operated electrical switch designed to protect an electrical circuit from damage caused by overload or short circuit. Its basic function is to detect a fault condition and interrupt current flow"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_breaker
Nowhere does any definition say that it protects the equipment, it's exclusive purpose is to protect the circuit, period.

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quote me where I said the breaker is ONLY protecting the equipment! The equipment that is connected IS apart of the circuit that the circuit breaker is protecting. And to borrow your quote above:

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it's exclusive purpose is to protect the circuit, period.

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We agree the breaker is not intended to "protect" equipment from shorting out. Surely you have saw a freezer or other electric appliance that "failed" and was drawing excess current that wasn't a dead short. This happened to me a couple of weeks ago- not exactly in keeping with theme of message here, but applies to points made previously. I have been working on a double wide mobile home for about 1-1/2 years now for my daughter and family to move into. We had to removed decks and a covered front porch before the mover would move it. I have been making repairs as job and time allowed. We (I) ended up putting ceramic tile up beside stove and as a backsplash down kitchen counter for several reasons. Trailer had no empty breakers spaces in it. I installed an over the range microwave that requires a 15 amp circuit to it. Stove was gas, and original had pilot lights to light burners. New stove is pilotless ignition. Stove requires 10 amp circuit. Both power sources were on the same 20 amp breaker. I had to run a new wire from the breaker box to the outside wall of house and up to over the range microwave so the breaker wouldn't trip constantly. Funny that most of the lights are also on that circuit. Should have been better done, but it is what we got for a 20 year old mobile home.:mad: Anyway I had to pull receptacles and light switch out of the wall to put tile up on wall behind countertop. Understand I couldn't really kill circuit as all the lights were on it too, so I pulled everything out and CAREFULLY worked around them installing tile. The light switch for over the sink light and 1 receptacle are in the same box side by side. I bumped the light switch while grouting tile and pushed it into the receptacle beside it. Instantly all the lights went out, radio on counter out. Shorted hot screw on switch to ground screw on receptacle. Ok I expected the breaker to be tripped. This circuit was ran thru a GFI receptacle which tripped, and 20 amp breaker in breaker box also tripped. Still nothing working in house. Go back to breaker box and notice the 100 amp main also tripped. Reset it, and still nothing working. Went outside to service panel I installed and opened it to find the 100 amp breaker in there also tripped. Pretty amazed at how much stuff tripped off by brief contact. however, it was a "dead short" and I can see it doing that. 100 amp breaker wouldn't likely trip on overloaded circuit nor would a 50 amp welder breaker if something goes wrong in the laser and pulls more current than the cord can carry that connects it to the receptacle. I'm not talking about a dead short, I am talking about something wrong that is causing more current draw than normal, but still not a dead short. My argument is the laser is apart of the circuit while it is connected to power. The panel breaker isn't there to protect the laser as such, but it does limit the current the load can place on the circuit. That includes EVERYTHING from the wire attached to the circuit breaker to it's return back to the box.

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Originally Posted by Mike Lassiter

I beg to differ about it "being common". Didn't say it couldn't be done, but again NEVER have saw it done. That you did it in your shop and inspector passed it doesn't make it right. I would guess the inspector is really only concerned that the wire you ran the circuit with was heavy enough to carry the amp load of the breaker you had on the circuit. The fact that you are telling us that you trip the breaker when you try to use two machines at once sort of speaks for itself doesn't it?:eek: Was that your intention, when you wired it, to only be able to use one or the other at a time? As you noted about using two 1500 watt heaters at once tripping a breaker, that is why you can only have 3 outlets on a circuit in the kitchen (if I am remembering right - it's been awhile since I wired my previous house) because typically items used in the kitchen are high current draw items. Would serve no purpose to run every outlet in the kitchen on one breaker then have it trip every time you made coffee and used the microwave plugged in that sits on the counter. Sure you can wire them that way, but why would you if you wanted to be able to use more than one thing at a time.

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I don't mean to offend, but just because you haven't seen daisy chained 240VAC outlets doesn't mean it isn't common practice. I have seen it done routinely in many shop/garage situations. I have seen it in a commercial shop as well for little used equipment.

Please don't misquote me! I didn't say I trip breakers due to multiple machines running at once. I said that is the only drawback to using multiple drops on a single breaker. Most people find it very easy to reset a circuit breaker. That is a very minor drawback indeed considering the savings in wire and trouble installing so many different home runs. It is my standard operating procedure to run only one machine at once. There are exceptions - such as my dust collector - and I ran a dedicated circuit for it. There is certainly no safety risk involved if a breaker is tripped.

From my recollection, the NEC does in fact require separate circuits for kitchen appliances. I expect it is there to protect the consumer from annoying breaker trips. I have run all separate breakers in the kitchens I have wired because it just makes sense. Unlike the typical shop situation, someone might very well run a microwave and toaster oven at the same time.

Art, I have saw welding receptacles tied together, because there was only 1 welder, and it couldn't be used in 2 places at once several times. Then later a plasma cutter comes along and someone is cutting while someone is welding... In an old building where wiring is hard to get at or run (like me running the wiring for the microwave down through the outside wall then between the belly board and floor about 30 feet then up inside an inside wall) it can be a pain!!! I wiring the building our equipment is in. I had the building built them I sorted out were everything would go. I popped chalk lines on the floor for things and where 120/240 receptacles needed to be, Ethernet and telephone too. Wiring is CHEAP when you are already doing it anyway, unless you are wiring a commercial building and running everything in EMT or ridge conduit. Common sense goes a LONG way in these things. Other than what I mentioned about 240 volts welder plugs I have never saw any shop I have worked in in almost 40 years that did it. I get it for a one man shop, and point taken there are exceptions to most anything. I have done my share of this stuff too.

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Originally Posted by Ronald Erickson

One thing not mentioned is that your welder circuit is most likely a straight 240v circuit that uses 2 hots and a ground with NO NEUTRAL wire. If you don't have a neutral wire, you are not going to be able to convert the outlet into a subpanel without pulling another wire.

How many wires do you have at the outlet? Three (black, white (remarked as black or red), and ground) or four (black, red, white (not connected), and ground)?

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Actually, I already mentioned the problem of the missing neutral wire. I certainly hope someone listens to one of us as it is likely to be a show stopper for all these suggestions.

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Originally Posted by Mike Lassiter

Art, I have saw welding receptacles tied together, because there was only 1 welder, and it couldn't be used in 2 places at once several times. Then later a plasma cutter comes along and someone is cutting while someone is welding... In an old building where wiring is hard to get at or run (like me running the wiring for the microwave down through the outside wall then between the belly board and floor about 30 feet then up inside an inside wall) it can be a pain!!! I wiring the building our equipment is in. I had the building built them I sorted out were everything would go. I popped chalk lines on the floor for things and where 120/240 receptacles needed to be, Ethernet and telephone too. Wiring is CHEAP when you are already doing it anyway, unless you are wiring a commercial building and running everything in EMT or ridge conduit. Common sense goes a LONG way in these things. Other than what I mentioned about 240 volts welder plugs I have never saw any shop I have worked in in almost 40 years that did it. I get it for a one man shop, and point taken there are exceptions to most anything. I have done my share of this stuff too.

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You have to take a look at the context in which all this discussion is being carried out. Someone said that the OP needs to swap out breakers to match the current draw of the laser machine he is going to plug into it. I pointed out that typical house wiring is full of examples where this isn't necessary or desirable. Most household appliances and just about all interior lighting fit into this category. That is where the multi-drop discussion got going. My shop is 24 X 28 and that is probably typical of many readers here. I have no desire to have someone else operating 240VAC equipment in my little shop at the same time I am. I was more than willing to take the chance that I might rarely forget and trip a breaker in order to save copper and labor when I wired my shop. The idea wasn't original with me as I have seen it done in a lot of hobby shops. As a matter of fact, I have seen that exact wiring strategy recommended several times on the SMC Woodshop forum.

In any case, breakers do not typically serve the purpose of protecting the equipment that are connected to them for the reasons I have already explained. That is accomplished by the equipment manufacturer and the common sense of the end user.

my shop is 12x32 and my laser has a 240 volt dedicated circuit. Whole shop has surge protector installed in breaker box. I told him he needed to change the breaker. I would if I was planning to set up a large laser that will not be moved around and basically it will be dedicated to a specific spot and specific power source. In my setup, I can get to the breaker box and flip the breaker off MUCH faster than I could crawl around the laser and unplug it. The point about convenience outlets is taken and agreed with, however that is not the case here. Personally I would do what was suggest by 2nd or 3rd post. I would use that circuit and put in a branch power box and then run a circuit out of that to the laser. And as we are installing a 3rd laser, there is a good chance it will need a exhaust blower too. As I understood, he is already at the limit of the breaker everything else is running off of. Sure he can leave it like it is. I would not, you would it seems. Everybody has their own thoughts about it I guess. We have offered our opinions on it. He can decide what he wants to do, he may do something totally different from either of us....

The purpose of a breaker is to protect the wiring, not the device that is drawing the power.

Sure, you can repurpose the breaker by replacing it with a smaller value in the hopes that it will offer protection to the appliance, but that is not what they are for - at least the wiring will remain protected.

It should be obvious - never replace a breaker for one that is a higher value, doing so means that the wiring is not protected.

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Originally Posted by Gary Hair

. If you have concerns about over current then you need a line conditioner and/or a surge protector.

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Umm, here we go again. Neither a line conditioner nor certainly a surge protector are to protect from over current. This point will be totally lost in the usual load of misinformation and argument that accompany all electrical questions.

Electronic components fail much to quickly for any size circuit breaker to prevent... even fast acting 3AG fuses don't open fast enough to protect a poorly design circuit. They usually open because the circuit failed. They may or may nor prevent secondary failures when they blow. An 80 watt laser power supply can totally self destruct and never trip a 15A breaker, let alone a 50A breaker. Assuming even only 50% efficiency, the needed supply pulls what, maybe 2 amps? Yes, I know that's just the laser, doesn't include support circuitry. Still...

If you decide to convert the 50A circuit to a branch panel, there is indeed the question of having a neutral!

Again I am sure this will be lost in the usual bickering on this forum!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with sizing a breaker to the minimum current you will need. However, just be aware that the additional protection you will get is approximately zero. See my previous explanation.

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Originally Posted by Terry R Peterson

I'm going to call Epilog later today to have this discussion with them to see what they have to say about using a Helix on 220. I'll post back their response "straight from the horses mouth".

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I definitely got an slew on interesting and even controversial responses. To follow-up with the response from Epilog, they do have a 220v power cable available to the tune of $70 which I would be able to use in my situation. At that price, I'm going to further investigate the idea of turning my welding outlet into multiple 110's. I could use an extra outlet (one a separate breaker) to spread the load from the air compressors / exhaust fan / etc. anyway.

I know two here have asked what combination of wires I have (neutral and/or ground). I'll let the electrician answer that when he pulls my welding outlet to replace it with a breaker-box. The outlet is located 18" below my main breaker box, so no big deal if he has to pull new wire.

Thanks to each of you for your input. All was highly appreciated. Glad my first post to sawmill got some activity :)

Mike, just for future reference, a simple strip of tape (electrician's, masking, whatever) over those screws is real cheap and easy insurance when you feel the need to work around live circuits. Quicker than stretching an extension cord and setting up work lights, too, just not as safe...

At the risk of being picky, "There is certainly no safety risk involved if a breaker is tripped" is not true in all cases. For example, I know of an instance where a bit of twisted and gnarly grained hard wood stalled a table saw while being cut without a splitter. The kerf closed tight and squeezed the blade, plus possibly the wood pulled at a bit of angle and bound up between the saw and guide, and the breaker tripped. The guy extracted the wood, set it back down on the table (apparently in contact with the blade) and, forgetting to turn off the saw (which had a mechanical rather than electromagnetic switch), went and reset the breaker. So, the saw started up again when the breaker reset and shot the wood several feet across the room into a wall. Fortunately, the only injuries were a chewed up board and hole in the wall.

The breaker didn't cause a safety risk... the guy's absent mindedness did. The breaker did its job... it protected the wire inside the wall from overheating due to the massive current draw of a stalled motor. It's fortunate that the only damage was material and easily fixable.

However, using tools in a dangerous state (prime example of a situation where he very likely could have had a bad kickback) and leaving tools in a dangerous state (plugged in, powered on, blade raised) is no fault of a circuit breaker. :)

Terry: Glad you're calling in your electrician. You should think about having a few 20 amp circuits added off the 50 amp sub-panel so you aren't tripping the single 20 amp circuit you have in the garage (if I understood your setup correctly). Make sure they are GFCI protected since they are in a garage.

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Originally Posted by Terry R Peterson

. . . The outlet is located 18" below my main breaker box, so no big deal if he has to pull new wire.

Thanks to each of you for your input. All was highly appreciated. Glad my first post to sawmill got some activity :)

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Now that is a really fortunate situation. Good for you!