New Grizzly G0715P

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08-18-2010, 9:30 PM
Greg Book

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New Grizzly G0715P

After doing some research, it seems the new grizzly hybrid G0715P has the same guts as the Craftsman 21833. According to the parts diagrams in the respective manuals the entire trunnion assembly, motor mount, and elevation/tilt mechanisms are identical. The only difference is the handwheels and riving knife attachment.

Craftsman: http://c.shld.net/assets/own/00921833e.pdf
Grizzly: http://cdn5.grizzly.com/manuals/g0715p_m.pdf

This is significant to me because of all the blade alignment problems that people have had and continue to have with the Craftsman. Problems with trunnion bolts, cracked trunnions, and blade going out of parallel as the height is changed.

I was one of those who got a bad Craftsman earlier this year. I got a replacement from Sears that has no alignment problems, but promised myself I'd only keep it until the Grizzly hybrid was in stock. I saw the manual on the Grizzly site today and started looking through it. To my surprise in addition to identical guts, the Grizzly also has thin metal table inserts and the same miter gauge as the Craftsman.

I have an order in place for the Grizzly, but I'm going to cancel it and stick with the Craftsman. It's not all bad as it seems that though the internals are the same on both, you get a better fence, better blade guard, cast iron wings, and a full cabinet on the Grizzly. However, no mobile base.

The Craftsman can be purchased on sale for $410 plus tax (plus $65 delivery). The Grizzly costs $891 delivered with lift gate service, a mobile base would be another $100. That's around $500 difference for a better fence, guard, wings, cabinet, but essentially the same internal parts. I just can't justify that for the Grizzly.
08-18-2010, 9:43 PM
george wilson

A terrible brand name: "The Bad Craftsman."!!!
08-18-2010, 10:04 PM
scott spencer

The new Ridgid R4512 appears to be the same saw as the Cman 21833 too. The issue with the 21833 isn't a brand name problem...it appears to be a design issue. The 21833 was the first of these out...perhaps later models won't have the issues. I'm fairly confident that Grizzly will resolve any issues promptly, but I don't blame you for being concerned. Good observation.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...g6ZFwIhmT9BX4=
08-18-2010, 11:43 PM
Matt Logana

I got a hunch that the Rigid and the Cman are both manufactured by the same company... just rebranded.... there is no dening they are identical...
08-19-2010, 1:05 PM
Greg Book

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott spencer

The new Ridgid R4512 appears to be the same saw as the Cman 21833 too. The issue with the 21833 isn't a brand name problem...it appears to be a design issue. The 21833 was the first of these out...perhaps later models won't have the issues. I'm fairly confident that Grizzly will resolve any issues promptly, but I don't blame you for being concerned. Good observation.

I don't doubt that Grizzly would provide very good service. In fact, Sears provided very good service and replaced any defective parts no questions asked.

For me, it was a realization that other than some bells and whistles, I already have the same basic saw as the more expensive Grizzly. So now I can be satisfied with what I've got :) and I can save for a cabinet saw some day.
08-19-2010, 3:04 PM
Cliff Holmes

As is often repeated, watch for used cabinet saws locally. I just sold a one-year-old Grizzly 1023SL for $500.
08-20-2010, 2:07 AM
Chuck Isaacson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Book

I don't doubt that Grizzly would provide very good service.

Why is it that you think that you would not get good CS from Grizzly. In fact, that is one of the main reasons that I did just order a tool from them. I am sure that if you took a second to look around on this forum, you would see that there are several people that have bee very happy with their service. Please enlighten me..
08-20-2010, 3:30 AM
Van Huskey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Isaacson

Why is it that you think that you would not get good CS from Grizzly. .

In fact he said just the opposite: "I don't doubt that Grizzly would provide very good service."

While I agree that Grizzly has excellent CS IF their is a design problem with the Craftsman and the Grizzly is a clone it is darn hard to CS your way out of a design flaw.
08-20-2010, 6:29 AM
scott spencer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Huskey

In fact he said just the opposite: "I don't doubt that Grizzly would provide very good service."

While I agree that Grizzly has excellent CS IF their is a design problem with the Craftsman and the Grizzly is a clone it is darn hard to CS your way out of a design flaw.

I may have mis"spoke" earlier....hopefully it's only a quality issue that can be more easily corrected, and not a full fledged design flaw.
08-20-2010, 10:57 AM
Greg Book

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott spencer

....hopefully it's only a quality issue that can be more easily corrected, and not a full fledged design flaw.

I think time will tell. My initial concern is that if customers of the Sears saw are still having quality problems, regardless of manufacture date, then maybe it is a design flaw or terribly quality control at the factory. Since the designs seem identical, I can only guess that they come from the same factory. I'm sure that factory will improve their quality if Sears, Home Depot, and Grizzly are their customers.

Anyway, it seems that a lot of manufacturers/importers were caught by surprise by the UL/riving knife situation. And from that, they seemed to pick whichever Chinese manufacturer was already making a riving knife equipped contractor saw. Even Delta, Powermatic, and Jet have not updated their contractor saws to be UL compliant.
08-20-2010, 12:14 PM
Van Huskey

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott spencer

I may have mis"spoke" earlier....hopefully it's only a quality issue that can be more easily corrected, and not a full fledged design flaw.

Scott, I actually wasn't restating your words but uising my own and quite frankly I probably misspoke as well. Design flaw is an engineering term of art and means a pretty specific set of circumstances, I was using it rather loosely. The problems that plague the Cman saw are pattern problem whether it is QC or design is unclear, to me, BUT it would give me pause if I was considering the 715 until it proves itself. Further, given the 690 and 1023 saws are not THAT much more I would suggest someone consider setting their eyes on one of them if possible since the 690 is proving itself and I feel confident the 1023 will again after its redesign. In the mean time the 715 will prove out one way or another.
08-20-2010, 1:28 PM
Shiraz Balolia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Book

I think time will tell. My initial concern is that if customers of the Sears saw are still having quality problems, regardless of manufacture date, then maybe it is a design flaw or terribly quality control at the factory. Since the designs seem identical, I can only guess that they come from the same factory. I'm sure that factory will improve their quality if Sears, Home Depot, and Grizzly are their customers.

Anyway, it seems that a lot of manufacturers/importers were caught by surprise by the UL/riving knife situation. And from that, they seemed to pick whichever Chinese manufacturer was already making a riving knife equipped contractor saw. Even Delta, Powermatic, and Jet have not updated their contractor saws to be UL compliant.

People sure speculate a lot and make giant assumptions.

First - this saw is not a copy of the Orion, or the Sears/Craftsman. Secondly, it is not made by the same factory as those two. So - guys, just wait till these saws are out before jumping to conclusions and making assumptions.
08-20-2010, 5:49 PM
Greg Book

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiraz Balolia

People sure speculate a lot and make giant assumptions.

First - this saw is not a copy of the Orion, or the Sears/Craftsman. Secondly, it is not made by the same factory as those two. So - guys, just wait till these saws are out before jumping to conclusions and making assumptions.

The internet was built for speculation :). Its good to hear from the source about this saw though. Thanks for the information!
08-21-2010, 2:05 AM
Chuck Isaacson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van Huskey

In fact he said just the opposite: "I don't doubt that Grizzly would provide very good service."

I guess that I need to quit reading posts at 2AM... My bad..
08-21-2010, 7:24 AM
scott spencer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiraz Balolia

...this saw (the G0715P) is not a copy of the Orion, or the Sears/Craftsman. Secondly, it is not made by the same factory as those two.....

That's reassuring and good to know....thanks for clarifying Shiraz. I wish more suppliers were this in touch with their customers.
08-21-2010, 11:31 AM
Van Huskey

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott spencer

I wish more suppliers were this in touch with their customers.

This is what dealer networks are supposed to do but alas much like car dealerships it is rare to walk into a tool showroom where the salesperson knows nearly as much about a tool they are selling as "we" do. It is interesting in the age of the internet that Grizzly's approach (limited dealer network) often conveys information in a better way.

As for speculation Greg is correct that the internet was built for speculation. People are always looking for information that will mold their buying decisions for the future and are looking to make decisions as soon as possible. It is a difficult decision for a company to decide when to announce a new product, wait too long and risk losing customers to the competition, announce too early with few details and suffer the insuing rumor and speculation, announce early with full details and risk latter design changes alienating people that banked on that one feature that actual production forced out of the design set, announce early and suffer delivery delays and still more people are angry. The internet speculation is a two edged sword it often creates buzz for a product but it can be positive or negative, the most successful companies make creating and managing internet buzz a high priority.